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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Is it possible to get higher than a level 5 in KS2?

50 replies

GrapefruitMoon · 03/07/2008 14:35

Please settle an argument for me - Is it possible to get a level 6 at KS2? I thought 5 was the highest?

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CarGirl · 03/07/2008 19:57

I'll never forget my junior 4 teacher (so old yr 6 equivalent in my neck of the woods) slatting me in front of the class for being useless at maths I remember the smirk on my face at senior school when I came top of the year in their assessment test way above my teachers favourites

Mind you it just makes me think it's all more meaningless than I ever thought it was anyway! When dd started her junior school it had failed it's ofsted, wait for it, because it was in debt FFS!

roisin · 03/07/2008 19:57

Cargirl - more like top third rather than top half.
2007 results - national
L5 English 34%
L5 Maths 32%
L5 Science 46%

I think 5a is not a particularly good indicator of ability, rather of preparedness for that particular test.

Age standardised scores will be available shortly on the site linked above by Mrz. That will give you a good idea of comparative rarity of particular scores.

4madboys · 03/07/2008 20:00

really our school is using level 6, ds1 (aged 8) has just been assesed for his maths and english and they put him at level 6, the teacher called me in because she said it was very good, didnt mean athing to me as i removed him from the yr one sats and was planning on doing so fo rthe next lot, only now the headteacher is saying she wants him to take them as it will boost the schools average etc

snorkle · 03/07/2008 20:02

That's interesting roisin - I'm sure it used to be about the top 20% that scored level 5's.

Grade inflation, brighter kids, or better teaching to the test?

CarGirl · 03/07/2008 20:04

obsessive teaching to do well in the test dd has had 3 practice lots (at least) before the real thing - what a waste of year!

CarGirl · 03/07/2008 20:08

also how fantastic a year must it be for those children who find ot 4 times in 1 year that they haven't achieved a 4a in anything at all ever. How lovely to feel like a failure x 4 x 3 grrrr

roisin · 03/07/2008 20:12

ds1's school didn't mention SATs until after Easter. They never had SATs papers or similar as homework, and they only did one proper set of practice papers.

I like their approach

CarGirl · 03/07/2008 20:19

I think dd's school is under a lot of pressure to produce higher sats results after their failed ofsted. They do score very very well on their value added compared with similar schools.

We didn't have any practice papers for homework or anything like that and tbh they get very little homework. 50% of dd's was from her extra maths & english classes so her choice. I know other local schools give their pupils far far far more homework throughout the juniors which I would have been very unhappy about if I were a parent.

robinpud · 03/07/2008 21:12

4madboys- your son nust have been folowing a highly individualised programme in order to achieve a L6 in Yr 3... is that a state school?

seeker · 03/07/2008 23:03

Are you sure about the level 6s at 8? Is that in SATS papers or a test devised my the school?

avenanap · 03/07/2008 23:09

At key stage 1 (7 years) they go up to level 3. At key stage 2 (11 years) they only go up to level 5. ds's teacher told me they are not allowed to go any higher. ds is 9 and is already at level 5, he's not allowed to sit the paper above as this is for GCSE, which is the next key stage, despite having a maths age of 14 and an english age of 16.

Chelsie · 03/07/2008 23:53

The reason that teacher assessments at level 6 are so rare (apart from the fact that they indicate performance way ahead of expected levels)is that to award one, teachers would have had to have delivered a very different programme of study (i.e. that provided in secondary school). Although level 6 in the old extension papers was extremely hard to achieve it was possible for a very small number of pupils to score highly enough to be awarded this level in the text. However, the only way a pupil can be awarded the level now is by teacher assessment. This type of assessment takes into account the pupil's whole attainment, not just what they can achieve on one day in a test. Very few teachers would be able to say that they had a pupil who had covered the whole of the level 6 programme of study and was securely attaining this level.

Chelsie · 03/07/2008 23:57

sorry - should read "it was possible for a very small number of pupils to score highly enough to be awarded this level in the test"

ButterflyMcQueen · 03/07/2008 23:58

my ds got a 6 but that was 5 years ago
my dd got teacher assessed level 6 maths but that was 2 years ago

ds2 just done his and not sure what rules are now? no idea

avenanap · 04/07/2008 00:04

ds could get a level 6 at key stage 2 if he could. He already has a maths age of 14. He's 9. I'm quite pleased he won't have the opportunity though. Where would he go afterwards? A'level? I dread the thought.

ButterflyMcQueen · 04/07/2008 10:19

why avenap?

is it not good to work to abililty level?

4madboys · 04/07/2008 11:13

hi roisin yes he does go to a state, school but he only attends three days a week, we have a flexi school arrangement and he is home educated the rest of the time.

the school has had to give him extra work at school as he found the work too easy, but i dont think they have been doing a special programme and we certainly havent at home but he does love maths, he has always spent a lot of time playing with technic lego etc and he just seems to have that kind of brain dont know where he gets it from tho, def not me

his reading, comprehension and vocabularly are also well ahead of where they 'should' be, but he is just that kind of kid, could talk before age one and was talking in sentences not long after his first bday, he has always been tallish so everyone thought he was older as a toddler, even at school people think he is older, but he is actually the youngest in his class (an aug bday)

which is actually why we chose to keep him out of school totally until he was 6yrs and then we started with the flexi schooling, its only this last year he has been going three days a week, as he was only going two.

mrz · 04/07/2008 18:31

avenanap GCSE isn't the next level there are KS3 SATS at age 14 two years before GCSE exams.

Idobelieveinfairies · 04/07/2008 18:36

my DD got 5a's in year 6.....she has gone on to fast track in her GCSE's which has meant starting her GCSE's a year early and doing triple subject exams and starting some AS's in this coming year. Only a couple of schools here allow them to do this-good idea for those than can cope.

In the primary school now it is all done by teachers assesments rather than the test papers.

seeker · 04/07/2008 18:42

KS2 papers are still sent away to be marked, I think. ANd the teacher assessments are independently ajudicated - I think again.

Idobelieveinfairies · 04/07/2008 18:45

not sure if that is the case here-i am in channel islands and we were one of the first -well trial school not to sit the exams or something..was a while ago now.

I think i have that right....

mrz · 04/07/2008 19:36

KS2 SATs are externally marked by ETS all papers are packed away at the end of the test and collected. We got ours back last night and the results will be available after the 8th July this year.

Jersey primary schools have externally marked SATs as well as CATs

ButterflyMcQueen · 04/07/2008 20:49

my dds school have put the sats at 14 a year forward which has been a good thing for her as she became much more focused
it is a very academic school though
she was predicted well including an 8 in maths but who knows with her

Blandmum · 04/07/2008 20:56

no, not in th tests

Idobelieveinfairies · 04/07/2008 20:58

mrz-you seem to know what you are on about..lol

I is confused....i remember the school doing a trial based on perhaps children not sitting sats because of stress reasons. I know one year it was teacher assessed. I thought the outcome was that they were going to stop sats testing.

Sounds like i have it totally wrong! Would it be that these sats are done without the big test conditions then..and considered when the teacher is assessing? That may be wear i am going wrong!

..i need to speak to my school..and my children about tests!!!

did i dream this??

I know the secondary schools sit their CATS in test like conditions ds just has.

OMG!! bad parent alert!

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