so DS's report is the classic "bright but disruptive" line - what can I do? (long!)

[florenceuk]

DS is in Year 1. He has always had problems concentrating and listening - to the extent that he was put on an IEP which was meant to get him to keep still for five minutes a day. Having watched one lesson I was also appalled - he made strange noises and mucked around, while the other children put their hands up and were keen to answer questions. The class itself (about 30-odd) is boy-heavy, about 2/3rds boys with about 3-4 who stand out as particularly disruptive - DS being one of them. As a result, his report is the classic "DS could do much better if he could concentrate" - even in subjects he loves, like science and history. He got a C for attitude in English, Maths and PE, and Bs for everything else. not surprisingly, I don't think he is very well regarded generally by his teacher or the school. In his three years at this school, he has never brought home a certificate celebrating any achievement whatsoever. He was excluded from the school xmas play for being disruptive. To top it off, he got pneumonia and missed 10 weeks of term.

I would hesitate to claim I'm a model parent but I do set boundaries and enforce rules at home, limit junk food, TV, all the standard middle class things. I'm certainly aware of the negative side of things, and try to consistently punish bad behaviour and reward good. DS does judo, Perform and Swimming so he's not a sloth. But he has trouble recognising boundaries and respecting authority. To give a trivial example, my friend tried to get him to get off her piano by putting the lid down - he pushed it back up and said no I want to play, I could tell she was shocked as her DS would never push back so blatantly. On top of this he has a terrible temper (like me ) and loses it in the play ground. I'm not sure how well he is regarded by the other boys - I'm pretty sure some parents think he is awful.

In my opinion, he really is not stupid - he is articulate, loves listening to books, has absorbed complicated facts and theories about the origins of the universe and evolution. He can be surprisingly earnest and thoughtful. He also loves judo and Perform so he will behave in some situations where he is engaged.

So we're going to talk to a child psychologist because the school thinks he needs a "paediatric assessment". But he's also underachieving at school and quite frankly, I'm worried that next year will be more of the same - the school failing to engage him and him not learning or achieving his potential.

I see lots of people (teachers) here who talk negatively about these sorts of children and seem to blame the parents for not somehow getting these children to behave. But I am running out of strategies and I have really really tried my best! (This week it is - behave and get to see Kungfu Panda. Misbehave and lose access to TV and Wii). Clearly his teachers aren't succeeding either. What do teachers think we as parents should be doing??? Every time I talk to DS's teacher it's always faintly accusing - I'm obviously falling short in my duty.

DH has said what about private school because then at least he'd get some more individual attention - we're in Wimbledon and my impression is that if you haven't signed them up at birth it's very tricky. Also, what school is going to want him? He's not obviously going to be a star pupil, despite his interest in physics and evolution.

whew! this is what keeps me awake at night...

I think an assessment by an Ed Psych is a very good idea florence. He may have slight issues that hinder his concentration etc and you will be given an IEP or statement that will outline the help he needs. I'm presuming that the school suggested this? This is a good thing, as they have recognised he might need more help.
Don't worry too much (difficult I know) he is still very young, only 6 I imagine and I'm sure most parents/teachers are not thinking negative things about him. It sound like you are doing all the right things discipline wise, so if I were you. I would try and relax, engage him in the things he does like and push for this assessment. Then you know what you are dealing with (if there is anything!) Good Luck

I do sympathise - have a very very similar Yr4 boy. (Strange noises, check; fine when engaged, check; not a problem at home, check. Etc.)

Private school is a possibility - but it totally depends on the school. Some private schools know what they're about, and have a genuine interest in squarer peg children; but lots are not: they're (and sometimes very unashamedly openly) in the market for the easy-to-teach, will-get-good-results, sell-the-school, build-the-business demographic. Have a look at the Good Schools Guide, especially the bits on SEN provision.

On getting a place - London has a transient population, so even at the most popular independent schools casual places DO come up, especially as you go up the years. If you can identify (via GSG as above) a few you're interested in, call them & discuss. It is not at all impossible.

Bink,...do you think he should have an assessment first before thinking about moving schools?

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest an assessment wasn't a good idea - it's always useful to have as much info as possible. I was just responding to the private school question.

However - being a veteran of assessments, I would say that, if you have a mildly-to-moderately square peg child (ie, where a real bigger issue can't be identified), often what the assessment comes out saying is that you have, guess what, a square peg child (plus, one hopes, some ideas for strategies which may or may not work - each square peg being a bit of a world unto itself).

So I wouldn't look to any assessment as a solution, but as a help in gathering information.

Sorry Bink I only asked as you obviously have experience..
I too have a slightly squre peg ds (yr2) he has slight dyspraxia and dyscalculia. we're moving him to another school (state) that I think will cope with his personality better. As Bink said, It really depends on the school. we thought a small school would be good, but now realise a bigger school with more TA's / SEN's / facilities, computers is actually the way for us to go.

This sort of thing makes me so cross Florence - for you and your DS. For the record - I am a teacher, of Y1 and Y2 children. Children of this age are being asked to do such age inappropriate things! Why should they sit at desks and work all the time? They are 5 and 6! Our school (a normal, state primary) has made a big effort over the last year to alter our curriculum to suit the children. Not alter the children to suit the curriculum! That means a play based, active curriculum where children's interests are fostered in a fun, interactive way. Our behaviour issues have vastly reduced and our results were astounding this year. Not the final SATs results - these are lower ability children - but the value added since they entered this system. Have the Ed Psych assessment by all means, but I would be looking for a school that offers a more active curriculum so that your child is engaged in more age appropriate activities if I were you. Sorry - will get off soap box now and go hide in the corner!

Don't be embarrassed Ingles!
And, re moving yours, that is also something I meant to say - state schools also vary in how well they manage these things - I know people with similar children who are very happy with their state schools (as well as those who obviously didn't have such a good experience).

The essential fact, I've come to realise, is that every one of these sorts of children has his or her own unique issues. (Bit like the Tolstoy happy-vs-unhappy family thing.) My ds has for the last year and a half been at a respite unit school, to deal with exactly these sorts of things, and you cannot believe just how differently disruptive, or anxious, or whatever, the children have been. A real intensification of one-size-doesn't-fit-all.

thanks for the responses - I think I just need to sound off, it's just I've waited this year to see if it would come right and it hasn't. He already is on an IEP, it just doesn't seem to have made any difference. Actually I don't think the school is at fault - clearly if 27 children out of 30 seem to be able to sit on the carpet and pay attention, then for the majority it does work, but rather it just isn't clicking with DS. I'm just at a loss to think of what might work. Interesting to hear that you think you've found the right school Bink - I have to admit, I am thinking that maybe we'll have to look elsewhere or else he just won't make it through the system.

Right school ... well, it has helped, it has; but ds has grown out of it now & is moving on - and, crucially, still with lots of his issues unresolved. There's still masses to do - the other big thing with these children is that you have to resign yourself to a long haul. Lots of loin-girding & that.

He's moving to a mainstream (private) school which is doing its best to prepare for him, so that's good. We will see where it goes.

[Bink repeats herself about the long haul.]

If you ever want to discuss further offline, I'd be happy to.

thanks Bink - I think we're going to look for this assessment and then think about what we want to do next.

I'd love any other teacher's views as well - what do they think parents should be doing?

It sounds like he's acting the clown because he wants a response. ds was like this until a new boy started his class who was worse. ds quickly caught on that he'd get into trouble if he carried on. He sits and watches the other boy get into trouble and has learned through this.
What does the teacher do when he starts to muck around? Have you explained that it annoys the other children?

Kings Wimbledon is very good. I would send ds there If I lived closer. He's very highly gifted and a bit of an odd ball.

DS not the only clown. He has been told it annoys others and means they don't learn as much. He just can't help himself!

Kings seems a bit out of reach, TBH, for an average-achieving 6 yr old not extensively prep-hot housed! the brightest boy in our class is being tutored for the exams in January for KCS junior school.

It sounds to me like you're doing everything right, and all you can really do is sit it out and wait for the Ed Psych assessment.

And in lots of cases disruptive behaviour etc is just a question of maturity; learning to sit still on a carpet and put your hand up is a skill that some children just absorb, others have to learn. It might just be a waiting game - tbh it also sounds like the school are doing all the right things.

Hi Florence! Similar situation with us after DS's reception year but we have the added factor that he has epilepsy and we are convinced that his medication is really getting in the way of his focussing and concentration. We had a meeting with school last week, along with the epilepsy nurse, what we thought was advice for school about how to cope if he had a seizure (never happened during the day) Suddenly it escalated into the fact that school want to get him assessed with a view to a statement as his concentation is so bad. We have had no mention of IEP, no communication before this that it is such a problem. DH and I are both teachers so know that process that school should go through.

We have also thought about private school - I went to a fab little prep school which I would love him go to if we lived nearer and had a bit more cash! Once we get his medication changed and have an assessment, i really think we will be moving school, private or not. Do you know what the Head's parting words were when DH said that we would do whatever it took to help DS and that perhaps a more structure private school might be an option? " Well I can't see him sitting still for more than five minutes "

Sorry, rant over. You know, I love MN as there is always someone else experiencing the same as you!

Oh by the way, we are now going down a route of looking at DS's diet and are as of today cutting out wheat and dairy to see if there is any impact!

I found a lovely book to help ds and I have told alot of mnetters with problem little darlings about it as it really does help children to see how their behaviour affects others.It's called the unwritten rules of friendship, I got mine off amazon for about £8. It's written to help children make friends by looking at their behaviour and how they annoy others, I think this might help.

Sounds good avenanap, will try and get hold of that.