How would you handle repeated hitting by a new girl at primary school?

[GalileoFigaro]

I wasnt sure whether to put this in the Bullying section or Primary Education. (Admins, feel free to change where this thread ends up)

There's a new girl who has started at my daughter's school and for her age should be in my daughter's class, but she was put in the class below as she can't read or write her name apparently.

This child has had difficulties settling in and has hit, kicked and punched several children in the space of 2 weeks! Last week she slapped my daughter 3 times, hit at least 3 other girls and gave her classmate a black eye.
The following day she approached by daughter at the school gates, gave her a hug and said she wanted.to be friends. My daughter accepted the apology and invited her to play as it turns out the girl lives next to her grandparents.
Fast forward to Wednesday and she pushed my daughter again and yesterday (Friday) she hit our friends' daughter.
It seems that nothing is being done to punish this girl. I've told my daughter that her dad and I fully support her defending herself but we all know that if she were to retaliate SHE would be the one punished.

A lot of parents are upset with how the school is handling it and if this child hits again, then they'll make a formal complaint against the school.

How would you handle this? I'm not having my child hit or pushed again and the achool not doing anything about it.

@WhatIsPink LAs do not fund academy schools and don’t have pots of money set aside to fund schools. They do have SEN funds but schools need to work through strategies first. The head has been delegated Sen funds for dc without a ECHP.

Schools can exclude pupils to keep others safe. Many do. The heads hands are not tied and they alone have the power to exclude. Ofsted don’t run schools and have no power over head teachers decisions. There is no “above the head” in a state school. Following the policies and decisions are down to the head. It’s difficult when dc probably have Sen but clearly the head needs to take some action. The action, however, is also down to the head. The only thing parents can do is use the complaints policy. This, at the final stage, will be heard by the governors. However as this is an operational matter, they will be loathe to get involved and what do they do? They have no power to exclude the child or make operational spending decisions.

Another update.

She hit my child again in PE Yesterday.
My daughter didn't tell the teacher because she didn't want to interrupt the lesson and stop the game they were playing. (Wrong on her part. I've told her that in future she needs to tell an adult there and then)

She told her dad in the car on the way home then told me when she got home.

I immediately sent this email to the PE teacher to make him aware.

Good afternoon (teacher's name):

I apologise for writing to you at 2:30 PM on a Friday, right before the weekend, but (daughter's name) has just come home from school and told me that (child's name) in 1st primary pushed and slapped her across the face during PE class today.
(Daughter) didn't mention it at the time because "we were playing and I didn't want to interrupt the game."

I am aware that there have been several incidents of physical aggression involving the girl in question and that the school is addressing the matter; I simply wanted to keep you informed, as this is obviously a question of student safety and well-being.

If necessary, (my husband's name) and I are willing to meet with you, the leadership team, and the other girl's parents.

Again, I apologize for the inconvenience of raising this issue over the weekend.

Best regards,
(Name)

and got this reply almost instantly:

"Thank you (my name), for telling me. I didn't know anything.
I'll try to keep a closer eye on the new girl, (name), and make sure it doesn't happen again. If there's another incident, let me know either in person or by message like now.
We'll see how this girl behaves, because as you say, she's already had similar issues with other classmates, and she's already being reprimanded for it.

Best regards.
(PE Teacher)

In the 80s/90s, depending on the type of school, it was made illegal for staff to hit children in schools.
Yet now many children receive far worse injuries from other children, and so many people don't seem to care at all!
Yes, complain. It is not ok that schools are so much more dangerous nbow.

Make sure you have a copy of the bullying policy. If (problem ‘when’) anything more happens, then it will be time to escalate the situation - headteacher, governors, ofsted etc. Do not accept ‘Sen’ as an excuse as your child matters as much as anyone’s, although it does sound like the school is listening to concerns.

i think also social services needs to be involved as something is not right here, but that’s not your problem.

You need to practice the scenario with your dd -where she shouts sternly to the girl to' get away from me right now 'if she hits her . Alert the teacher so it's caught in action .

We had this when my dd was in primary school, one girl had started to hit and would target one girl, class teacher told the parent it was the girls way of making friends when they complained. Said parent hit the roof and basically said ok if i hit you will you be my friend ? Strangely the class teacher took it much more seriously after that, but girl was then permanently excluded after she picked up a table throw it another child knocking them out.

In the 90s my mum threatened a child in the playground who was hurting me daily and the school wouldn’t deal with it. She waited a few weeks and took matters into her own hands. I think it was a case of spotting her in the line, so she bent down to her level, make eye contact and say in a quiet but menacing tone, “you hit my daughter Name again and I’ll be seeing you here tomorrow”

Reader, it worked 😬😅

100% - similar for us, and we told him to hit back hard enough for the child to realise he will hurt more...and soon after it stopped too.

@GalileoFigaro The school will not facilitate you meeting this child’s parents or careers. Never seen that as it can just erupt into arguments. The other parents are unlikely to be happy about what’s happening and what on earth would you say to them? Anyone who suggested that course of action is a good idea I’d totally wrong. This is wholly a matter for the school to deal with. It’s not for parents to accuse other parents in a meeting.

Any child hitting like this has needs. It’s down to the school to make school safe for your dc but also to meet the needs of the other child, if they can. If they cannot they should exclude. There’s a lot they could do before that however but you meeting those parents won’t be happening and don’t teach your child to fight back. Utterly futile and plain wrong. The school surely knows of the problems.

No, you cannot go to the governors and complain about operational matters that are decided upon by the head. You must follow the complaints policy, which you haven’t. I suggest you do. Ofsted will also refer you to this. I’ve no idea why you didn’t read it and use it.

A meeting was held with the child's parents, teacher, SLT and another family whose child was hit and that was facilitated by the school which is why I said my husband and I would be willing to meet if necessary.

I should probably have mentioned that I'm not in the UK so there's no Ofsted or anything here and the policy may well be different to back in the UK. (I'm British though)

I'm also not going to go to the governors. I never once said that I was going to do that. My friends submitted a formal complaint but I haven't. All I've done is send that email to the PE Teacher. The governors know what's going on anyway as there are several parents on the governing body/ school council and it has heen discussed.

There's talk among the other parents of submitting formal complaints and allowing their children to defend themselves but I'm not advocating my child hitting back or anything like that. I know that's not the answer.

@GalileoFigaro Not in the uk!!? That’s entirely different and you might have said earlier. The way schools work here is not the same in terms of parental meetings for the reasons I gave. No school would shame parents in that way.

I think you’re on the right track OP. As a teacher, please keep being the squeaky wheel. Sometimes a child has a lot of issues, or needs a lot of support. Teachers go to admin and any support from about is either not enough or just not good enough. Sometimes the only way for teachers to get leadership to assist is when the written complaints start rolling in.

Time to write out a timeline and address it all to the principal. Tell them you know that the teachers are flat out with a full class and doing their best, but, your child deserves to feel safe at school. Ask then to outline what extra supports they can put in place before the end of this week and before someone is more seriously hurt.

sadly, sometimes this is the only way to get leadership to really step up and behind the scenes, teachers will be quietly cheering you on.

She has come from another country with a different education system. In many countries children dont start school until 6, in Scandinavia it's 7 so she doesn't necessarily have SEN. She could be suffering from culture shock and resenting being relocated. If she is from a non European country the differences could be even greater, she could have experienced war or violence.

None of this makes it easier for the other children and I think @GalileoFigaro has gone about things the right way. I just wouldn't jump to conclusions about SEN and definitely wouldn't encourage children to respond to her with violence.

Edit: I've just seen the OP isn't in the UK so it's hard to advise.

@CaptainMyCaptain and @ItsNotMeEither Thank you :)

@CaptainMyCaptain That is a complete misunderstanding of the education dc receive before they start formal school in countries that have such a system. It’s not a free for all with no rules or structure. It’s actually highly structured so dc hit the ground running and of course bright dc read before age 7!

I'm just saying there are differences in education in different countries and we don't even know what country the OP is in. Moving from one system to another, perhaps from an informal system to a more formal one or vice versa, could cause a reaction from the child particularly if there is a language issue too.

@CaptainMyCaptainYes, I accept that might be the issue but I struggle with not reading anything at 7 due to being in a country where school starts late. There might be language issues as well. As she’s been assessed by the school as needing the class below and not accessing even that curriculum, it strongly suggests SEN. It also highlights the problems of dc being in the wrong year when they cannot communicate. They hit smaller and younger dc.

Inability to communicate due to speaking a different language isn't the same as SEN. Anyway, we don't really know what the issue is, where the OP is or where the child is from so there's no point in speculating further.

This sounds like a referral to the Safeguarding Lead & possibly Social Services is needed. This is both to protect the children being assaulted & to flag up that the child doing the hitting is probably being abused at home. As a school governor, I asked for a violent child to be referred & the LA advisor in the Permanent Exclusion meeting said that no one had ever raised the possibility before. No child thinks that level of violence normal unless it is their own experience or they are seriously disturbed. Either way, they need help & the other children need protection.

@Kave The op isn’t in the uk. It’s not safeguarding really. It’s clearly Sen and if the school was in the uk, the duty to keep DX safe comes into play. Safeguarding is far more sinister and it’s not there to prevent poor behaviour in this way. Our history in terms of grooming and murder started the need for safeguarding. Not Sen amongst the school population but I’ve no idea if this legislation is replicated abroad.

I’m presuming that repeatedly hitting her mum would be frowned upon 🤷‍♀️

If a child lives in a violent household & both sees & suffers from violence, I think that is a safeguarding issue. I’m making assumptions but so are you. Why assume SEN?

Put it in writing

@Kave Because the child cannot read or write. In the uk (which this isn’t) that situation would be 100% on the sendco’s radar. She’s been put in a class a year down. That also indicates Sen. Even not managing her feelings is Sen. We used to call it EBD. Not now but it’s still displaying a need. The child is probably frustrated and unable to articulate her needs and doesn’t regulate her feelings and actions appropriately. Given her educational issues, that’s all Sen.

I’ve seen this in schools in the uk and we have special schools for dc like this. This child probably is misplaced in mainstream but I don’t know what is available as an alternative where the op is. The bare minimum here would be a special unit to work on reading and behaviour. These have a much higher staff - pupil ratio and specialist teachers. This child needs something different educationally. I don’t think I have leapt to any conclusions about Sen,

Agree hitting isn’t always Sen. It’s home life, abuse, trauma, behavioural