Just found out who DS1's Year 4 teacher is next year, and I'm not happy.....

[whippet]

She has a reputation for being grumpy and ineffectual.

Was not teaching a class last year - just doing 'support' work with a variety of children, and all those who have come into contact with her have not been impressed.

Am wondering what, if anything, we can do? Wonder if we should be talking to the Head now, or wait to see how it pans out?

She may be a good class teacher, you never know. Your ds will have to meet alot of different people with alot of different personalities so he'll have to learn to get along will all of them. I would leave it and see how it goes. You won't be doing him any favours if you rushed in now. When he moves to secondary school he'll encounter all types of people that should have been banned from working with children. he cant escape this so it's probably better he learns some diplomacy skills and some patience. Sorry!

Hmm, I know what you mean avenanap, but the only thing is that it's an independent prep school, so I don't expect to be paying for a poor teacher! And I get the sense the school may be already considering her future (IYSWIM) so I don't see why DS's class should have to be guinea pigs along the way.

She might be marvellous and inspirational for your child. You can't tell yet.

But she's in for a hard time. I think that it is vey difficult for a teacher to turn around a reputation.

I know what you mean. ds (also private) had a teacher a couple of years ago that alot of parents complained about before she took over the class. She turned out to be very nice.
The same applies though, at secondary level (even in a private school) he will meet teachers he will not get along with. By all means talk to the head, alot of other parents would have anyway so he'll know all about the concerns. He will be keeping his eyes on her though, he won't want children to leave.

You really cannot tell. My brother was devastated for me when he heard who my first teacher was going to be- strict and horrible was the rumour doing the rounds. She was a lovely woman whom I clicked with instantly. A teacher who is grumpy and seems ineffectual with one child may do wonders for another.

Otoh my friend was delighted when her ds2 got the teacher whom past experience with ds1 had "taught" her was the best in the school. They didn't get on at all and ds2 frequently got into trouble because she failed to understand him. Ds 1 had loved her.

My ds was terrified of his new junior teacher the first few weeks- at Christmas he cried when the teacher announced that he was retiring.

whippet on Mon 30-Jun-08 16:46:20
"Hmm, I know what you mean avenanap, but the only thing is that it's an independent prep school, so I don't expect to be paying for a poor teacher! And I get the sense the school may be already considering her future (IYSWIM) so I don't see why DS's class should have to be guinea pigs along the way."

Yes but until they have decided her future, what do you think they should do? Put her with a class of somebody else's dc's instead? Aren't they equally important?

If the Head is a good head I should think he would be swayed by serious evidence, not by somebody coming in saying "I have heard a playground rumour".

Poor woman! What exactly are you thinking of going to go to the head to complain about? You don't want your child in her class because you have heard gossip that she may be grumpy. How do your sources judge 'ineffectual'? How would you know that the School are already considering her future?
Teacher's who 'just' do support work are often very well trained in dealing with special needs, specific learning support programmes, behaviour problems, G&T extension etc. Any of these skills would be beneficial to a class teacher and to your child.
In answer to your question I would make absolutely sure that I didn't pass on any of this hearsay gossip and give the teacher a chance. If you encounter problems when your child is in her class, discuss them first with her and then with the head if you need to.

OK - I can see where some of you are coming from.

But to explain a bit - it's not just 'playground gossip' but actual feedback/ reports/ experience from parents higher up the school whose DC have had this teacher, including a couple who also have children in my son's class and are REALLY dismayed that she is being given this class as a full-time teacher.

The reports are on her (lack of) patience in teaching the children who have previously been seeing her for dyslexia/ reading development etc. She has now been replaced by another SN teacher.

Several parents have already been in to see the Head to complain/ comment on their dissatisfaction with the way she has handled teaching their children, and the reason they believe she is already 'under review' is because the Head made some comments along the lines of "yes, I know what you're saying, we've had a few discussions with other parents about similar issues".

Of course I couldn't march into the Head and complain about this teacher, but I would be perfectly entitled to ask a bit about her background and qualifications surely?

I just don't see why, if this teacher is being 'managed out' (as I suspect she is) that any class should have to suffer her.
My son's class is quite small, and I personally think we are being 'fobbed off', and it would be useful for the Head to realise that if things aren't up to scratch then we will be right onto it?

It's not great for the kids to have teachers changing mid-school year either, if that's what ends up happening .

I tend to find that I like and get on with the teachers noone else likes and often the other way around. Don't listen to gossip.

But until she actually interacts with your child you are just going on playground gossip - regardless of who is giving their opinion, and how accurate you think that it might be. I can't see that your Head is going to treat you approaching him with any degree of sympathy at this stage, and I suspect it will just mean that you have less chance of a more profitable discussion during the academic year.

Also you're not paying for a specific teacher - you're paying for the school. If this individual teacher was such a liability then it would show up in the school's overall results.

Well, I suspect there isn't much I can yet, as you say, LM. However nor do I want it to be DS's class that has to be shown to be underperforming for her shortcomings to be realised!

The 'Head' is female BTW... not male.

whippet on Mon 30-Jun-08 21:22:00

"But to explain a bit - it's not just 'playground gossip' but actual feedback/ reports/ experience from parents higher up the school whose DC have had this teacher, including a couple who also have children in my son's class and are REALLY dismayed that she is being given this class as a full-time teacher."

But these parents have not seen her interacting with your ds. I mentioned a couple of cases where other people's experience turned out to be totally irrelevant to the child who ended up getting the teacher: I could mention more. It often happens.

whippet on Mon 30-Jun-08 21:22:00
"The reports are on her (lack of) patience in teaching the children who have previously been seeing her for dyslexia/ reading development etc."

Can't help being reminded of a teacher ds got; my friend had been talking at great length about her lack of patience and empathy. Ds thought she was great and learnt lots.

whippet on Mon 30-Jun-08 22:46:45
"Well, I suspect there isn't much I can yet, as you say, LM. However nor do I want it to be DS's class that has to be shown to be underperforming for her shortcomings to be realised!"

So would you expect the Head to sack her before she has any evidence that she would be an ineffectual class teacher? Doesn't sound like good employment practice to me.

"it would be useful for the Head to realise that if things aren't up to scratch then we will be right onto it?

And how are you proposing to be right onto it? The only thing that you can do that I can see is to change schools and there is no guarantee that you will be happy with every teacher in the next school either.

I was terrified when I found out who dd was having as a class teacher this time last year. I had heard nothing but bad about her- mean, unfair, shouty, hates children...

Nothing could be further from the truth. She is strict yes but very fair and pushes them (bit too much homework TBH) but a really fab teacher who dd adores! She has made fantastic progress this year. Couldn't be more pleased!

had good teachers, bad teachers, weird teachers, teachers I liked, teachers I hated all the way through my education.

I turned out all right though

True, but if the class does suddenly underperform then you would expect the Head to step in and do something. And by Year 4 there should be means of assessing the children which will pick up on this very quickly, especially if there are also other Year 4 teachers.

I suspect however that what will tend to happen is that the children may not necessarily enjoy the experience as much as they might have done with a different teacher.

if you go in all guns blazing, what do you expect the head to do? She or he will hardly say, 'gosh, you are right, I hadn't realised, look I'll draw up her P45 right now'. So what is it you want to achieve?

Cory - the Head has already had 4+ complaints about this teacher from parents.
She has as good as told some of the parents that she is 'on the case'.

The teacher has been moved from a part-time SEN to a full-time class teacher for a Year Group she has never taught before.

There is a little bit more to this story which is underlying my concern - DS's class was an 'extra' class added last year, when another school in the area closed down. (We weren't at the other school - just were changing schools anyway). The school 'sold' itself hard on what it would provide for the new class etc etc. However it turns out that the class is only 12 kids, so smaller than the others.

As I said before, I am concerned that we are now being 'fobbed off' with a teacher who would not have been considered for the other classes.

If I have any reason to think that DS is getting a less-than-good education from this teacher then I (along with other parents presumably) will be making a formal complaint to the Head.

This is not just about her personality - being grumpy etc BTW - some of the reports from the other Mums suggest her language and style of interaction with the children is a cause for concern.

In private education, do you expect good teachers all the way through? Not one blip. That's if we assume that she isn't good and the parental feedback is correct.

Anyway, the blunt truth is that there is no conversation that you could have with the head on this subject with this amount of information in which you wouldn't look ridiculous. So I'd wait and see.

NFK - yes, I would, or I wouldn't bother paying for it.

You're right though - there isn't a way I could open a conversation with the Head about this yet. I probably don't need to bother anyway, as I'm sure the parents with experience of this teacher will already have booked appts for tomorrow!

"If I have any reason to think that DS is getting a less-than-good education from this teacher then I (along with other parents presumably) will be making a formal complaint to the Head."

And the keyword is "reason". You currently have fearful anticipation, but no "reason".

However if I were in your shoes then I would be more intrigued as to the future of this extra class. I would have expected the classes to be mixed up at this point. In fact I thought that it was good practice to mix up classes at 7 (Year 3) which is a typical entry point into prep. The only reason that I can think for continued segregation is that this new class isn't up to the standard reached by the other classes, but one would have expected the class to have caught up in a small group within a single academic year?

Ooh! what sort of language and interaction?

The Head must think she is a good teacher to move her from part-time to full-time. She would not increase a teacher's hours if she wasn't good.

If she has a particularly small class and has been a specialist SEN teacher she may well have been given these particular children because they are falling behind and need some extra support.

If you have faith in the School then let the Head and this teacher do their jobs. If not, move Schools.

I would be more worried about the fact that children new to the school were not integrated into exisiting classes, even if that meant redividing the current classes but instead kept in a seperate class (if i've read this right, and actually I hope i'm wrong on that), and that the head was prepared to discuss concersn about this teaching staff with parents - can you imagine what that does for staff morale.
I would certainly discuss the first issue with the head, I might also be seeing if there were any other alternatives locally.

Agree with Loshad, I had bad feelings when I read that the Head had told you that other parents had been in to complain. That verges on the unprofessional.
As for the number of complaints, how relevant that is would depend on whether they are all based on first-hand evidence. I have known cases where one problematic parent has given rise to rumours which have spread all over the playground; after a few months there were dozens of parents talking as if they actually knew that something had happened (it hadn't).
Agree that it's the issue with the class you need to discuss with the Head.

There are no issues with the class, falling behind or anything, in fact, they have done better than the other 2 classes in end of term assessments. The keeping them together as a group doesn't bother me in the slightest, as there were existing friendships, and the other two classes wouldn't normally have changed at Year 3 anyway. And to be honest for about 50% of the time they are with children from the other classes anyway, as they are streamed for key subjects.

I don't think the teacher has been promoted, I think this is a 'stop gap' solution, and I think the Head has probably gambled on my son's smaller, and very academic class being 'least affected' by having a crap teacher.

Agree the Head shouldn't have talked to other parents about complaints, but I expect she was trying to to allay fears and concerns. I'm very happy with the school otherwise, and have DS2 there too, so don't want to change.

I wasn't suggesting that the teacher had been promoted. I just don't believe that any employer would extend someone's hours if they weren't happy with their work.

Do the school publish each classes assessment results? I would have thought that this was quite unusual. Are they done individually or as a group?

I'm very glad that I don't teach in this school. If your gossip sources are to be believed, then the Head is very unprofessional, the parents obviously think they know better and having end of term assessment results published puts all kinds of unfair pressure on the teachers. I'm not surprised the poor women looks grumpy!