Oh wise MNers - how would you raise this with the Head or would you at all?

[lisalisa]

To set the scene.....dd is in Yr 6. There are about 8 girls in the class only. They are going on an end of Yr trip to the French Alps on Mondy. DD is very friendly wiht about 6 of the girls but not 2 of them. One of those 2 is the Head's daughter. The other is a girl who is v unpopular as she tends to hit the other girls, is very loud and boisterous and extremely immature. I'll call her X. Dd is actually quite frightened of her. Although X doesn't like dd she sticks like glue to some of the other girls using bullying and occasionally violent behaviour and consenquently there are frequent ruptions in the class about her involving mums etc. The Head's daughter ( call her Y) can't stand this girl. In fact relations between X and Y are probalby the worst.

The girls will share bunk beds and there are 2 bunks to a room - ie. 4 gilrs to a room. Two of hte girls are v popular - they are dd's best friends( call them A and B) and she is constantly at their house or they at ours. Our dd is not so popular outside of these 2 popular girls. Most girls will want to share with these popular 2 A and B including Y the Head's daughter.

Head doesn't like my dd or another girl on the trip. Dd's fear ( I must admit is progalby going to come true) is tha tshe will be forced to share with X and 2 ohters and that A and B will be with Y the Head's daughetr and one other gilr perceived as "not a threat" to Head's daughter.

Dd is so frightened and traumatised by having to share with X that she phoned me this morning in floods of teears ( whch is totally unlike her - she normally likes to play "cool") begging me to speak to Head to insist Dd is not wiht this girl. Dd would like to be wiht A and B but is genuinely happy to share with any combination that doens tinclude this girl X.

How to broach and whether to? Bearing in mind Head's vested interest in not putting her duaghter wiht the X and putting her with A and B.

I think you should leave it. Your DD is getting all het up beacuse that's what girls do. If she is sharing with X, she needs to deal with it. It won't be the last time she has to deal with spending time with someone she doesn't like.

How difficult.
Putting aside everything else (as, I think, is necessary), it sounds as if the crux is that X is a genuine liability. I would approach this by saying to the Head that everyone understands that X is difficult etc. - the Head will have to accept this given that her own daughter has the worst relationship with X, and the Head must have given special thought to X coming on the trip at all - so what can the Head do to convince you that all the girls are given fair protection from X. I definitely think that is fair to say.

For instance, they might well have planned for a teacher to also share whatever room X is put in.

If the Head makes you feel like your concerns are completely unfounded, I might actually have second thoughts about the trip.

"protection" is perhaps too strong a word, but I couldn't think of a better, sorry

The problem is that X is a liability all round, so somebody is going to have to share with her. At least your dd is not alone, but will hopefully be backed up by the other girls. I would ask the Head what they are planning to do generally about the risk of violence, rather than suggest that your dd should have some sort of special treatment (unless she is the only one who has been bullied by X).

We have a similar problem as dd is off tomorrow on residential trip. 3-bed-bedrooms to be shared with her, best friend and a girl who is a little problematic. Not violent but very annoying, particularly in her treatment of dd who is disabled: pushing her around like a doll in her wheelchair, speaking in a veeeryy slooow voooice to her(dd is not mentally disabled). Also with a tendency to carry rather too many nits around with her.

Apparently best friend's Mum went in to complain, citing dd as a particular reason (though her dd doesn't like the girl either). I asked dd if I should have done the same, but she was quite horrified. She told me to think about what it would be like to be that person whom nobody wanted to share with and pointed out that as nobody likes X's personality it would be the same for anybody else. As far as I know, she will be sharing with X.

However, if there is a risk of violence, then your case is a bit different.

Are you sure that they are going to agree a room plan before they go anyway? I think quite often it's a case of "Girls - those 2 rooms" and then it's a free-for-all.

At least with 8 girls between 2 rooms, your daughter will no be the only one having to cope with this girl, assuming it happens. Far worse if only 6 girls were going, and your daughter ended up with this joy of a child all to herself!

Thanks Bink and EffiePerine. I do actually agree EP that she will need to learn to deal wiht difficult situations and people she doesn't like in life but , on balance, feel that it will be trying enough for her to be away from home for one week abroad without having to deal with this " life lesson" on top. In any other situation I would probalby agree.

Bink - I have probalby focused to omuch on the "violence". i don't mean anything life threatening - just voilent out of place play - play strangling for e.g. - she doesn't mean it and would never carry it through to risk a child's life but the girls obviosly don't like it. I think it is the wrong take to ask Head how she will safeguard other kids as X is not seen as a threat - just an irreverant nuuisance. No thought was ever given to excluding X from the trip. The intention is that the girls will share rooms and the teachers will have a room to htemselves.

thanks cory and amuminscotland. Cory - your daughter sounds an amazing character and has quite the right attitude. My dd is not able to be so benevolent . As I mentioned above the voilence is not life threatening or serious - just too much to ignore.

Unfortunatley it won't be "girls - those 2 rooms" due to presence of Heads duaghter who is unpopular alhtouhg not aas bad as X as she ( Y - Head's daughter) would otherwise be left iwthout bed mates and would end up wiht X.

Part of me feels that it is unfair that Y should get to be with who she wants as she is Head's daughter and that Head is clearly manufactring this situation for Y's benefit rather than what the girls actually want and part of me says that dd is getting to share with another 2 girls even if she ends up with X so its not that bad and that , as someone said above, she does need to get a bit of persepective and learn how to manage in such situations.

on the oyther hand entirely i don't want ( if my decision is eventually not to say anything ) my dd to feel that she can't rely on me for emotional and practical support in times of need ( I alway s stress that she will be listened to and taken seriously and that she should always talk to me )- then abandoning her needs and explaining hta tI'm not going to help her when she cleearly feels vulnerable is not sending a good message either

Ah OK I misunderstood there - I did think there was an issue of needing to be safeguarded (I guess it was the reference to frightened and traumatised?)

If there isn't actually a safety issue, then I would I'm afraid try to tell dd that room-sharing is only a tiny part of the trip - when (the idea is!) they'll all be asleep anyway - and to just try to make the best of however it all works out - if she does have to share with X, then make the absolute most of the daytime trips, & be in the room as little as possible - etc.

Oh - on your daughter possibly feeling you are not supporting her - children are different, but with mine I would deal along the lines of "if you can be brave about this and manage as best you can and make the best of it all, then I will be hugely proud of you and there will be a reward "

is the Head going? If not, would it be possible to have a word with the teacher instead?

I'm still not clear why you're sure the Head will interfere in this situation, but I guess there may be "previous" that you haven't mentioned.

I think it would be tricky to try to insist that your daughter is not in the same room as X, unless there has been a specific history of bullying which you can point to as "evidence" that your daughter would suffer more in her presence than any other child.

But if X has known behavioural issues, then it would be fair to raise the question of how the staff on the trip are planning to deal with that, and the sleeping arrangements are part of that whole issue.

Have you posted about this before? It rings a bell.

Thanks everyone - I have not posted about this before itati, no - but I have about the School, Head so maybe familiar from that?

I think that I am going to have to go down Bink's route of palying down the sleepong part and making much of dd. I am a bit worried dd will break down though as she can be a bit hysterical and then gets quite bad eczema as a result and I think no small part of this for her is being away from home for the first time and wanting to be as comfortable as possible.

I just called A's mum ( the popular child) who was appalled that A and my dd and B may be not together and said that A and B had both settled that they owuld be wiht dd and one other gilr and all wanted to avoid X like the plague. A's mother was appalled that Head would intervene.

it stands to reason that she would however as she knows Y is unpopular and likely to end up with X and she has been circumspect so far on whether the girls will be able to choose their roomates. General character of Head is intrusive and bossy and dominating.

Blimey. If ever there was reason needed as to why it's not a good idea for a head to have her own child in her school.......