Choosing the outstanding school over our village school and his friends

[tclj2000]

My son has been accepted into a local school which is outstanding, this school is not our village school where all his pre school friends and cousins will be attending.
He has a group of 4-5 really close friends that he has made in pre school and we happen to be friends with a few of the parents too so it is a nice social circle.
We applied for the other school because our village school had a poor Ofsted reputation (although they are making good improvements), we weren’t impressed with how rundown it appeared at the open evening and they use tablets more than the school we got accepted into. The other school was just better! Forest schools, more extra curricular activities etc.
I can’t help but second guess our choice to separate him from his friends, he is really confident at pre school where he is with his friendship group but when he attends his other nursery setting he is a quieter and has struggled to make friends. I am worried splitting him up from his friends will make him go into himself again, he really liked the school he’s been selected for and doesn’t seem phased that his friends aren’t going there, but I don’t know if he fully grasps the situation.

Id love some opinions on this please!

Both my boys went to different primary schools than their nursery friends so knew no one when they started. It didn’t impact them at all to be honest. You know your child, but I would always choose a school I felt more comfortable sending my child to than where their friends are going.

This must be very difficult for you , to choose between the existing circular of friends and the wider opportunities offered by the objectively better school. I wouldn’t want a child to be constrained within their preschool circle of friends

You may ultimately decide differently

They are so little at preschool, he’ll make new friends immediately and if you are staying in the same village you can make the effort to see his existing friends outside of school. At that age I would not be making decisions based on the current friendships of a four year old.

Is the other school private? You say that he has been “accepted”. Or is it the case that it’s just a different state primary school to the one others have chosen?

We all have different preferences, the other parents might also have visited both and preferred the village one

If your son getting a place is unusual from your address and you have younger children, prepare for the possibility they may not get places and you will have children in different schools

IME it’s at least year one, if not later, before longer term friendships are made, and even then I wouldn’t necessarily call them “lasting”. I wouldn’t let that dictate my thought process, but equally, as a parent it’s very easy to get wowed by facilities that don’t really make a material difference to the children. I’m also not sure you could accurately know overall tablet use from viewings. (Just asking devil’s advocate questions!). What you will need to prepare yourselves for is an overall shift in your social circle. The ones who go to the village school will become closer and you’ll be on a different schedule and need to mix with his new friends. Plus you say local, but as he gets older and into after school clubs etc, are there any logistical implications?

My son went to school with all his preschool friends. His two best friends now didn't go there.
I don't put too much on ofsted reports as long as it's not that children generally are making below expected levels of progress. They only see one day. But tablets vs forest school is a no brainer to me!

We had a similar situation. Pretty much all of DD's preschool went to one school (which we hated) and we opted for our catchment (which was a million times better).

We don't regret it at all- DD is in y1 and thriving. She found friends almost immediately - within a week or so of them starting, you couldn't even work out who was at nursery/preschool together. The one that her preschool friends went to ends at y2, ans I know a number of them.will be trying to apply for y3 onwards at DD's school rather than going to the linked juniors (which is appalling).

If the preferred school is another state school then you will probably find there are others parents from the village with children in other years who have made the same choice. As someone above has stated, make sure any subsequent children will also get accepted. If it is a private school then you may find more judgement from others .

I would never pick a school based on what Ofsted say, thinking about some of their comments about schools (see the British Humanist Agency), and what teachers have said about the problems. I wouldn't want to send my children to schools that do things like that.
So visit the schools-see which you genuinely think would be best for your children. Consider things like travelling to school, what the atmosphere seems to be etc.

I wouldn’t base the decision on preschool friends. Take that out of the equation and choose based on which school will suit your family and child better. All our children went to schools far from home. It was a shame their friends didn’t live in the neighbourhood but once they’re older they get themselves around to see who they want to see.

If you really want to, you can make an effort to maintain the former friendships for a while till he makes new friends. Organise play afternoons etc with the old friends. It’s very likely he’ll make new ones quickly enough.

Also, if your worst case scenario is that he doesn’t make any friends and the school doesn’t suit him, you can always go back to the local.

I’d choose the village school without thinking twice on the grounds of friendships and proximity.

Never underestimate the benefits of walking to school alone or with friends in their final year. If you have to drive to this different school then it's going to impact on independence, meeting up with mates that live very close and the impact of time as over 7 years that's a lot of school runs!

Also whilst it's a long way off, check secondary school options. Being in the feeder school but not living in catchment does affect admission.

Friends come and go and they'll make new ones from the start so I wouldn't base decision just on that. But the likes of forest school etc is something I would take into account as it's such a great experience for them.

My DD went to a prep school and no child walked there. She had friends and certainly became independent. Not all independence is school based. Dc do not often make firm friends at pre school, so he will probably be perfectly ok starting again. I doubt very much any YR class uses tables all day! My DC did them for craft, and practicing writing though. Forrest school doesn’t suit every child.

I paid very little attention to OFSTED rating as in my experience sometimes the “outstanding” schools are just very good at ticking boxes. A “good” school may actually be more flexible and child focussed as they may be less worried about jumping through all the administrative hoops required to maintain an “outstanding” rating.

That said, I would always pick the school that I feel would be best for my child. If you feel like (OFSTED rating aside) your child will thrive at the other school I wouldn’t second guess that choice. Reception age children make new friends very quickly.

It’s nothing to do with ticking boxes for Ofsted ! It’s significantly more nuanced than that. I don’t think there’s much difference between outstanding and good but there’s a hell of a lot between inadequate and outstanding! Inadequate schools often yoyo in and out of that rating and frequently have staff turmoil and dc leaving. Any parent really should pay attention to why dc aren’t making good progress and all the other things that need improvement. Being confident a school can actually improve really matters - and how long for.

In addition, I’d look for the pattern of reports and see if a school is consistently good. That’s trustworthy info and should be part of decision making if you have a choice.

I infer from @tclj2000's post that her DC has a place at another state primary (Ofsted don’t usually inspect private schools I think?). I would not worry about friendships; as others say, at this age they are fluid. My DC all went to different primary than most of their nursery friends and it was fine.

I agree with others though – is this a local school you would a) expect to get into and b) be able to walk to? If not a), yes be aware that other DC may not get in as well (you may not have other DC obvs). If not b) then do not underestimate the value of a short walk to school – both when you are doing it with DC and when in year 5/6 they are old enough to do it by themselves.

I would be reallllly skeptical of ofsted ratings. We moved to a new area for reception and without much background insight chose a school that was outstanding rated - our experience was awful, and school downgraded to ‘needs improvement’ in its next assessment. Poster above nailed it by describing schools that warrant ‘outstanding’ as being really good at box ticking but not necessarily great places for your child.

speak with local parents, visit if possible, but don’t trust ofsed.

This is likely due to the old.inspection system- outstanding schools were put on a different inspection cycle, where they were only inspected in 10 year intervals. A lot can happen in 10 years.

The new regime is more regular, and doesnt issue one word judgements like the old one (still relatively new, though, so remoams to be seen).

I would only look at the ofsted rating if the school was rated below good, tbh. As other posters point out, good was a very wide category, ranging from schools that missed out from outstanding by one area, to schools that are far less than that.

A good school would be getting inspected far more regularly, and would likely be striving to improve more than one that was told it was outstanding- I mean, if someone says you are perfect, why would you invest the time/effort?

Requires improvement was an automatic category for any school with safeguarding failings (regardless of other failings) and also for schools with other issues.

Thanks all! We have been to visit both schools, both state schools - the local school (not village) has a really good reputation from local parents and our village school is mixed, the overall consensus is that the village school is ‘fine and making improvements’.
It is the social side that is getting me, I understand he will make new friends but I know his social circle will be a good one in our village school, it is also our social circle that will completely change. And like a lot of the comments say I’d love to just walk him to our local school and for him to walk home with his friends in year 5/6.
We do have a younger daughter and I really worry she wouldn’t get into the other school with ds and the local school is getting more and more applicants from further afield each year.
Am I over thinking the importance of primary school or is it better for him to be in our village school with friends and socially flourishing?

I wouldn’t pay attention to offstead over input from say parents with kids there - and how did you feel the kids were when you went to visit, were they nice and happy?

I’d be considering your younger child and the entry issues you might have and ease of getting there too especially in the winter

our primary is good but I could have applied to a couple of outstanding ones in neighbouring areas but we have a local childminder and also have 3 kids to consider so we stuck with the local ones.

But all circumstances are different but if lots of your friends are sending their kids there and it is improving then I’d be seriously considering it.

We live in an area where we had a choice of 5 primary schools within a short distance, 3 of which could be walked to within 20 minutes. We chose the one that had the worst OFSTED rating because they seemed very nice and nurturing We were correct in our assumption, it was also a very small school. I made some wonderful Mum friends there as well and 2 came to my 60th birthday party at the weekend, the kids are 25 now.

The one school that had an excellent rating, the Headmaster was like some ‘hideous car salesman’ to quote DH. We also chose the worst performing High school as it was the closest. DS left with 3 A levels at the highest grades and then secured a degree apprenticeship with a guaranteed job.

We knew our child and their capabilities but we did both work in higher education for 55 years between us. I think people freak out about schools because they do not have the confidence to know their own child’s capabilities. I did a lot of research about educational outcomes with an emphasis on income levels. Mothers educational level, income levels and ethnicity are the biggest indicator of outcome.

How far is the allocated school? I wouldn't worry so much about pre-school friends as they would likely change as he got older even if they went to the same school, but more that if the school is a long way away you may be taking him out of his local community and making it difficult for him to be part of another one.

ideally, this would manifest in him walking to school and having friends nearby, but if it's only a short drive this would also be ok (although you will have to accept that you are spending the next 7 years being a taxi driver).

Are you friends with the other parents in their own right, or did you only get to know them because you had children the same age? If the former, that will give you an opportunity to keep the existing friendships going, at least in the short term.

He sounds outgoing and confident so he'll make friends at any school. If he goes to a school outside the village, he will presumably still see his pre-school friends because they live close?
Nevertheless, I would choose based on proximity. The advantages to living close to the school are huge. Being able to walk there (even if you accompany him), having friends who live close really does change everyday dynamics for the better. If you need to drive him to school, this will also mean he will need driving to see his friends, some of whom will live even further away from you.
I'm not keen on tablet use in primary schools either, however, the outstanding school will have other aspects you don't like but don't yet know about. I'm a bit skeptical of Ofsted ratings in general because they don't give the full picture IMO.

At primary you are his biggest influence. So if you care about his education , read him books etc, then that will outweigh any less than perfect bits of the school.
7 years is a long time to be driving a child to school and back 5 days a week, 30+ weeks a year and my experience is traffic is getting worse not better so a 20 minute drive now might be 40 minutes in 7 years (or 10 years if his sibling is eg 3 years younger).
If you go to the village school then you can take it in turns with neighbours as they get older or help each other out when you have an ill child etc.

@Posywosey It was not a RI category for failing safeguarding - it was Inadequate. Remember the head who took her own life? Her school went from Outstanding to Inadequate because of safeguarding failures. How quickly we forgot the school caretaker murders in Suffolk! Good is usually a perfectly good school but I’d always read the report. The school, and even outstanding ones, will always have an improvement plan. Parents can ask what steps a school
is taking to improve and should do.