calling all primary school teachers - please advise - considering career change

[jeangenie]

I am thinking of changing career to be a primary school teacher...just thinking at the mo...

I wondered if you could tell me the best and worst bits of your chosen career and also how well it fits in around your children's needs...(I have two - one age 6 one 3 and don't want them to have to be in after school care until 6pm every day so if it means that I may have to rethink)

I currently work P/T in an office in a job that bores me to death but allows me certain flexibility (ie I can pick up my 6yo from school 4 days a week - although I never see her in the mornings as I am already at work when they get up) but would love to do something a bit more meaningful and challenging

I already teach art to kids on an informal basis and really love doing it, I've also volunteered on two full day craft events at DD1's school and loved it,although I felt totally knackered at the end, but in a good way...not just bored and frustrated after another stressful but ultimately tedious as hell day at the office

but I know that enjoying a bit of art and crafts with kids doesn't necessarily mean I am cut out for teaching

so, another question, what in your view are the qualities you need to be a sucessful primary school teacher?

oh, and what way do you suggest training if I did go ahead with this crazy plan I have researched the GTP route a bit, and it sounds good as you get paid while training on the job so to speak...but possibly super competitive...or super stressful...

so many questions, thanks for reading, and for any advice you can offer

re. the post by wrigglejiggle about getting a job in an independent school:

1. great if you have any such schools in your area
2. some independent schools have a brilliant set up for staff and run well
3. some independent schools are absolutely shit for staff. If you are looking at an independent school as a teacher rather than a parent, you need to really consider stuff like future salary, discounts on school fees, working conditions. There are some schools throughout the Uk owned by a particular company (I.m not naming names here) and I would not touch one with a bargepole from stuff I have heard about their working conditions. However, some people do not mind being treated like an idiot, because such schools let you get away with just doing the minimum to do your teaching- but do not check the quality of teaching and learning and promote on the basis of who knows who, rather than merit or actual skill. For an unqualified teacher seeking a first job, I would be wary of ending up in a school which has a lack of staff training, lack of up to date technology and teaching materials, terrible physical conditions for staff and children.
4. I still think that many, many, people are still conned into thinking that a little independent school is good, but actually fail to see how bad the day to day conditions are for their children.
5. what on earth do you mean about your mortgage???? Was the school a mortgage lender????? Or do you mean you had a live-oin position?

Would second most of what's here, as a partner of a primary school teacher. He works mainly 60 hour+ weeks, a lot of the weekend and evenings, some of the holidays. The only thing I would add is - re. people's comments about the flexibility to choose your hours to some extent, leaving e.g. at 3.30 or 4.30 if you need to - this really does depend on the school. At DP's school there are so many planned and ad-hoc meetings and other things that it is almost unheard of for him to leave before 5.30 or 6pm, and certainly on most days there isn't the option about when to leave if there is some staff meeting or other planned (which is most evenings). Not all schools are like this but, from hearing from his other teaching friends, many are. My partner is actually leaving his full-time, permanent post to do part-time supply because, in his words, he'd 'like to see my own daughter grow up'.

There are lots of reasons to choose a career in teaching, but IME work-life balance isn't one of them.

It's like all schools really, it depends entirely on how they are run. Some independent schools are great, some are bad. Some state schools are great, some are bad.

The good schools value their staff so train them and pay them well, and they see their staff as a valuable resource rather than 'just a teacher'.

The other points are similar to state schools and independent schools alike - quality of learning, promotion opportunities, up to date technology and resources, children and staff conditions

Like anything you have to be wary of jumping at the first opportunity that comes to you. You have to do your research on the school first.

I guess the point I was trying to make was

• you must value yourself and know what you are worth
• you must know what working conditions and salary you are prepared to accept

- you must offer something that sets the school apart from other local schools (instead of general 'Art', is there an artistic specialism that makes you (and therefore the school) unique?

• target and sell yourself to the schools that can afford and want to invest in the Arts

Lots of schools would love a resident artist. 'Artists in residence' was/is an initiative that may be worth looking into.

Katak - no it wasn't live in. I thought I deserved more than they offered, so I asked, and they said yes!

Haven't read all of thread but here's my two penneth worth!
I am in my 11th (eeeek!) year of teaching and I still have that fresh, eager anticipation for my job. No two years or children are ever the same. The rewards are bountiful. I absolutely love my job. There are negative elements - long hours, rigid working times but the positives far outweighs this.
In many ways you are your own boss in the classroom and that I like! I now do 3 days a week, which is more than enough. The holidays are perfect if you have children too. There is a lot of out iof hours time - I would say for every hour you teach you have an hour of planning/preparation/displays/resources to make and find but if you can be organised it doesn't have to eat into your life.
Also, being surrounded by children all day, you don't miss your own IYSWIM!

The NQT/PGCE training is tough but I would sat go for it to anyone considering!

JacobsPrincess, (quick hijack) we had been looking at primary schools in East Sussex for a possible job move but I was a bit concerned as so many of the schools seemed tiny with mixed aged classes. Do you think they work for the children?

Also in my capacity as a possible future re-training primary school teacher are mixed aged classes/small schools better or worse to teach in, in your opinion?

I did my training in 2 large city schools, but have only taught in tiny schools IYSWIM.
Little schools often have a very nice family feel, a sense of community where everyone has to pull together for events, often whole village communties support the school, small class sizes, you'll know every member of staff and they'll know your child, you will always get a seat at your childs assembly/play, staff turnover is generally low. Mixed age classes are not a problem with regards to curriculum. IME the older children set a standard which the younger group try to attain, therefore raising standards. And you get such a wide range of abilities in ANY class, that it doesn't really matter if you have 30 yr2's or 18 Yr2's & Yr3's.
On the other hand, large schools generally have more money so can be better resourced (but not always!). More children to mix with, if your chd has a problem with a teacher or another child it is easier to change classes.
As you can see, I'm a bit biased towards small schools, but that's all I really know!

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it jean! I've been thinking of this for a good while now and have finally decided to properly consider it instead of it being a little 'dream'!

I am going to observe a day in a couple of local primary schools. I do have a fair idea from my own son's schooling over the last couple of years but I think observing a whole day or two will give me a better idea of whether it's for me. If it is I intend to compress my hours at work and volunteer one day a week for a year, in DS' school.

Then the following year, I'd hope to get on a local course to get QTS.

So I think what I'm saying jean if you come back to this is, don't be put off - go and see for yourself a bit more; give yourself say six months or so to check it out; don't put pressure on yourself to decide right now!

I'm finding it's helping to pace myself - it's a career change, not just getting a new job so there's no reason you should be able to make a decision right now, it might take a good while.

Thanks Jacobs Princess!

I agree with mrscraig, every hour in the classroom needs an hour outside the classroom for planning/preparation/marking.
This is why I do either supply or part time or job share.

It is not quite as clear cut as double the hours. It is more a case of whether the teacher feels that the hours are being on tasks which areof any use in their professional work.

Who counts the hours anyway?
I get tired of hearing of the average number of hours that a teacher works- why do we have to quantify it like that? No one ever listens who actually is in a position to pay a fair salary.

And let's face it- all the teachers who choose to stay in teaching ARE NOT ALL working CONSTANTLY.Yes teaching is unique in that it requires you to work independently outside the classroom - but that is so obvious that no one with enough intelligence to become a teacher should be surprised at that fact.

It is the extra administration and producing of records of what you are going to do, what you did, what happened , what's going to happen next, that is so infuriating.

I do not mind spending time on things such as developing an idea I have had for some lessons. Or researching to find future trips etc for school. Or being involving with preparing a school production. Those are the good partsof the job- satisfying and have a purpose.
It is the having to write down what you are doing constantly that is so annoying. Most really experienced teachers have all the knowledge and planning there, but to then write it down- that is the killer.
So to cut down on hours worked teachers need to tell senior managers that they will not do the extra paperwork- that is what OFSTED are supposedly in favour of: no unnecessary paperwork with regards to planning.

And the salary scale for classroom teachers is too low,far too low.

Couldn't agree more Katak. The paper work is the bit that often feels like a waste of time.

Most of the time nobody ever reads the paperwork!

can I resurrect this to ask a question?

Can one of you helpful primary teachers tell me about a typical day? I mean, from going in first thing through to when you leave, could you just tell me what roughly you were doing....and could you describe a really BEST day and a worst day, I'd like to get a picture of that.....

I am going in to two schools in the next two weeks but I think a bit more background knowledge from people doing the job in other schools would REALLY help

Thanks in advance!

6-6:30 get up and do some work (planning / marking)
7 get kids up, get ready etc
7:45 leave for school
8-8:45 prep in classroom
8:45-9 morning briefing
9-10:20 register, date, schedule for day, business - literacy
10:20-10:40 break - either on duty or prep for next lesson
10:40-11 assembly
11-11:45 numeracy
11:45-12 phonics
12-12:15 handwash, line up etc, sound of the week/ number of the week
12:20-1:30 lunch break (40 min to eat, rest of time to prep for afternoon)
1:30-2:30 foundation subject
2:30-3:15 foundation subject 2
3:15-3:30 reading partners / story time
3:30-5 staff meeting (Mondays only)
3:30-5:30 marking / prep (with a good 10 minutes to shoot the breeze, discuss how lessons went, have a moan, etc.
5:30-8 go home and spend time with kids, put them to bed etc.
8-8:30 ish make dinner for dh and myself
8:30-9:30 ish eat/relax
9:30-11/11:30 planning
11:30/12 bed

Best day - things either went to plan and kids 'got it', or a moment of serendipity eg; 'let's chuck away this afternoons plan and do this instead' and it really works.
Worst day - haven't properly prepared and not on top of things, get shouty and unfairly impatient.

Sorry - prob TMI, but HTH!

I would say that Jennifersofia's day is fairly typical. My DCs are older so I don't need to put them to bed but I often end up with taxi duties quite late on. I eat earlier. I don't usually get 40 minutes to eat lunch. Displaying work takes a lot of time, TAs are supposed to do it but it takes them away from working with the children and I love doing displays anyway. I would agree with the best/worst day.I can't do the job without preparation. I write a list of things to do every morning so that I don't miss anything.

oh thanks so much guys!

Jennifer that wasn't TMI that was exactly the sort of thing I needed. I'll be able to compare this with what I see in the local primaries I'm visiting and that will all help in the decision making process.

At the moment I'm still very keen to do it; it seems to play to all my strengths - and I am very much a planner, so that aspect would seem to suit me as well! I have a five year plan for our lives, broken down into monthly action plans I think I sound fairly suited to teaching so far anyway!

thanks again

I think it is probably easier if you stay in one school, in one year group. I chop and change and so it is new every time. It is more interesting but I always seem to start from scratch on the planning.

blimey Abbey that does sound hard work actually - do you have to chop and change or is that your preference, with the downsides of changing being outweighed by it being more interesting?

I don't like doing full time so I tend to take part time jobs or job shares or maternity leaves where there is an end in sight. At the moment I am doing supply work which has a lot of disadvantages but cuts out the planning and paperwork. I have just finished working with year 5 and before that I was working with year 2. If the right job came along I might try full time and stay put for more than a year. The trouble is that I get very fussy, I go into a lot of schools and there are some that I wouldn't want to work in full time!

just out of interest, why don't you like doing full time? Don't mean to be nosy, if it's for personal reasons - but if to do with the job it would be interesting to know why; as in, would the preparation just be TOO much if full time?

I'm very interested in working just with infant age, reception - yr 2. What do you think of those age groups?

(thanks for all this BTW - only know secondary teachers in RL!!!)

The stress HG! I worked flat out and was always two steps behind! Everytime I thought I was catching up a staff meeting came along and we had something else to do!
I had a lovely part time job, 4 mornings a week. I worked all day on my 'day off' doing the planning. On the other days I left school at about 1pm and worked all afternoon, this left the evenings free, and most wonderful of all-weekends free. It gave me a life outside school!
I dare say that I do a lot more than is strictly necessary but I can't face a class of children unless I am well prepared and my lessons are thoroughly planned.
I find infants harder. The marking is easier but they can't do much on their own.

Wow - I have such a lot to think about and such great suggestions to mull over

it'll take me a while to digest it all and work out what best plan of action is for me...

thanks again everyone - you are brilliant - one and all!

I do not think thatyou should assume that evryone will staay after school for two solid hours marking/preparing and then do more later at home. I think the people whio can actually tell you exactly what hours they do are the kind of people who are the type who like to quantify and measure time whether it is re. work or leisure. I do not mean to be annoying, but I mean, I spenta lot of timepreparing when teaching, but ifsomeone said "what's a typical day" I couldn't tell you beyond the obvious timetabled lessons, because everything outside of lessons isentirely up to the individual to arrange- that is wh teaching can be so flexible(even though completely inflexiblein other ways re term dates). I mean, every term there would be different priorities in my personallife which mighjtmean I had to rush home regularly on certain days to collect my children due to lack of childcare for everyone. Or I might have a particular day when I knew that I could get home later so I would use that to staylate at school. It all depends. And re. the working after school thing- unless you need to use the school resources or your classroom specifically,you can work quietly at home once children are in bed especially now with the Internet and ICT being such an integral part of everything.

By the way, I cannot believe the person who said they have a five year plan for "us" (who eactly are you planning for?)which is then divided up pinto months. I have never heard of such a concept- to have a five year career plan maybe, yes. Oh my god. DOes that mean you plan what your family is doing? Can life never devlop naturally/ imaginatively/ freely/ organically?

that was me, katak, with the 5 yr plan Dont' worry, we are all developing organically and nicely......it's to do with money basically; I prioritised being at home with ds in his pre-school years and basically we sacrificed a huge amount, moved house to a much smaller place, etc; and I am 40 now so I feel we have to be organised NOW in order to get back up to where we were and cope financially with ds/uni/retirement

It's not about planning for the sake of it

I hope that reassures you