Starting primary aged 4 (just!)

[ThebigDees]

Hi, my grandson turns 4 late July, and starts school 3rd September. Will it be full days or half days? Parents don’t seem to know 🤷‍♀️ and mine went 1/2 days at first but my youngest is 23!
cany anyone help please? This is in England,not Scotland.

It varies from school to school. It may be available via their website?

Parents don't have to send him full-time until the term he is 5, but schools must offer full-time places from the first day.

Any school that only offers part-time for any period of time (even until the guise of 'phased entry') are violating the School Admissions Code 2021 (para 2.17).

It's totally up to the school how they organise it, there are no set rules which every school must follow. The school will be in touch with his parents in due course with the information, although it may already be on their website.

Many schools do still do a few days part time, just to bed the new cohort in within a smaller groups, but it's unlikely to be weeks on end like it was years ago as most schools now seem to realise that working parents need to be considered. However, some go straight in full time from the off.

You'll never please everyone. Some people try to demand full time from day dot if the school do do a few days part time, whereas some people will claim a few days part time is not enough. Parents are within their right to request a part time timetable to settle their child in, if it's not originally offered. That's a discussion his parents will need to have with the teacher nearer the time.

They probably won't know yet. They will likely be told about the settling in period by the schol in summer. As PP said it varies, for one of my DC it was one phone call from teacher with Mum and Dad and an hour at the school one evening with parents, for my other it was a picnic afternoon at school meeting the teacher then one half day session where parents left in the summer term. Both my DC were straight into full days from day one but it varies.

No they're not, otherwise no school would be able to do it. Many still do, because they see it as in the best interests of the children to allow them some settling in sessions in smaller groups before they are expected to do a full day as one of 30.

This is what it says:-
a) that child is entitled to a full-time place in the September following their fourth birthday;

I've underlined the key word for you. It does not say from the first day the school reopens it's doors for everyone after the summer holidays.

If a school offers a week or so of half days (for example) for their new reception cohort and starts them full time from mid September (ish), that's not violating anything. Likewise, some may do home visits the first week, then do a few days part time before starting full time by the middle of week 2 (for example). Again, this isn't a violation as it's starting them full time in September, exactly as outlined.

My eldest has an end of August birthday. He had been 4 for a week when he started school! He was expected to follow the same as everyone else in reception (half days first week then full days). He’d been in nursery prior to school so the school day with wraparound after school wasn’t any problem for him thankfully!

My August born daughter went full days from day one.

My DD went full days from the first day but I my niece did half days. It just depends on the school.

Schools do it because they've always done it and don't always realise that the Code has changed. The reason it says September is because schools don't start back on any single date, but every Admissions advisor will tell you tgat you are entitled to a full-time school place from day 1.
Our LA has written to all schools to tell them they must offer a full-time place from day 1 and any school that doesn't is in breach of the legislation.

However, This was raised a number of times when the admissions code came out in 2014 with this exact paragraph, and the Schools Adjudicator in their 2014 report said explicitly that -

"Schools must make full-time provision available from the beginning of the autumn term of the school year in which the child reaches compulsory school age, the September following the child's fourth birthday."

The admissions code has been updated since but the relevant paragraph re. September admissions that you quote has not changed, so there is no reason that the ruling above would not still be in force.

Exactly, the wording has still not changed, making it open to interpretation. September is September, whatever the date. If it was a true 'violation', action would be taken against schools. It's not like it's only a few who still do a short period of part time. Many do. Until they decide to make it more date specific, schools are doing nothing wrong by putting in place what they believe is best for the children.

We bend over backwards these days to try to accommodate parents, but it's often at the detriment to the children. I see it first hand. Settling in periods are shorter than ever these days, and it's the children who suffer.

The adjudicators report made it clear it was not open to interpretation, that was the whole point of that ruling. The adjudicator made it clear that that paragraph means pupils are entitled to a full time place from the start of the term.

The fact that schools still do it doesn't make it legal.

(note, I appreciate that a part time start for many kids is good. But it is clear, legally, that they are entitled to a full time place from day one, if parents really want.)

settling in periods are shorter than ever these days and it's the children who suffer.

I disagree. I think nearly all children have been in preschool or nursery and many have coped with far longer hours. Or, perhaps have done half days every day at the very least. The very slow settling in period just drags out something which many, many kids are already quite used to. Not to mention turning school into a Really Big Deal that requires all this Settling In. In my experience of younger kids (2-4), they actually settle faster if it's not too drawn out and bitty.

Mine had the teacher come out to the house for 20 min meet, then 2 half days, one without lunch and one to stay fo lunch, spread over the first week and half of term. By third week of term they were in full time.

oh and the two half days were with half the class

If it's not bitty and dragged out, yes. I've heard of systems where it's an hour here one morning, a whole afternoon there the next day, then lunch the followed day etc. That's confusing and unnecessary. It's also unnecessary to carry on for weeks on end like many schools use to, creating an absolute nightmare for working parents.

Three half days is not bitty and dragged out though. It allows children to get to know the new adults, the new setting and some of the rules and routines, plus some of their new peers, in a smaller group. It's the perfect balance in my experience.

All settlings are different so needs will naturally be different too. I've worked in a small village where all bar one or two came from the pre-school next door. They already knew us, from several interactions over our shared fence all year, and they all spoke English. They would have been absolutely fine to come in from day one full time. Where I am now it's a totally different story. We're up to 70% EAL (and some of those are very early acquisition). Due to cultural differences, some of them have never been away from their parents, let alone been to nursery. Some haven't even been in the country long. We take from at least 8+ different settings each year, in addition to the ones who have no previous setting. In those circumstances, even a few days does not feel enough but we do it to suit working parents.

Every year I see people on these threads claim a settling in period is unnecessary in their opinion or experience. Well their opinion or experience is very different to mine. As an experienced Reception teacher, I would always advise a short settling in period for the good of the children. There's no need to drag it out, but all children benefit from a initial smaller group if big changes to their routine are involved (ie they're not just moved over from the school nursery, with peers who already all know each other, adults they already know and a classroom they already feel comfortable in).

When children start nursery, they are offered settling in sessions. We offer the same for the exact same purpose, to settle them in. Yes we do some stay and play sessions for transition in June/July (slthough sadly I'm in an area where many don't engage with this, for whatever reason) but 6 weeks is a very long time for a 4 years old. They benefit from a few small group sessions in September before the new school becomes a full time reality.

We seem to be coming at this from different angles. You state this:-

But it is clear, legally, that they are entitled to a full time place from day one, if parents really want.)

That's very different to a school planning a short part time induction period. In all my years of teaching Reception, I have never known a parent demand their child not be involved and come full time instead. If they did and if a school refused this request, that would be a violation. Simply planning a few part time sessions for all the children is not. Schools do what they genuinely believe is best for the children. Why else do you think they do it?

I think three half days would be fine if children were then going home. More likely it would be a funny mix of grandparents or roping in other parents or nursery / childminder. It is much smoother when there’s consistency from the start.

No one here will know. The school will be in touch in due course to let the parents know.

Each school is different. Which is why no one here can help you. They all have different induction strategies.

It's not your concern as a grandparent. Frankly it's not your problem. Your over interest is overstepping. It's up to your grandchild's parents to work out. Not you. They may ask you to help with half days but that's down to them to resolve. Pestering them for this information now is only going to make the process more stressful for them and your grandchild will pick up on this. Don't make the whole thing into a big drama before they've even started as you will create unnecessary drama.

I wouldn't expect to hear from the school about this until at least after half term in June.

DSs school did not do half days. They just had three different start dates.

I know schools have the children in mind - I'm the Chair of Governors of a Primary School! :-)

I see, yes - I think we are not disagreeing, as such. The mere act of staggering reception start is not illegal in itself. To refuse a full time place from the start if requested would be.

We have had a few parents request this over the years I've been a Governor. However, we offer a very short induction period now as we find the vast majority of our reception intake have been in some sort of childcare beforehand, including our own nursery.

As PP have said it depends on the school and as I found out the headteacher. I think for both my DC we found out the timetable in June or July.

When my DD started Sept 2020 they had two half days on the Thursday and Friday with half the class and then they started full time from the Monday. They only had the half days because they were unable due to COVID to do them before the summer holidays.

When by DS started 2 years later there was a new headteacher who stated at a "get to know" coffee morning in May that she was going to extend the settling in period to 3 weeks for reception so they would start full time until about 25th. It ended up being 2 weeks of some mornings and some afternoons with half the class extending the mornings until after lunch.
This was an absolute nightmare as there was no routine. He was use to going to nursery 8:30-5:30 3 days a week and didn't understand when he was going in the morning why he wasn't going in with his sister but 30 minutes later. Also if he did a morning it wouldn't necessarily be a morning the following day which he couldn't understand.

Both my DC are summer born but I learnt especially for DS if something is about to change move over to the new normal quickly. Yes there would be some uneasiness but it would die down quickly whereas extended settling in just extends it. DS got into a routine 1 week before half term and October half term completely threw him and when he went back to school his development went back 3 months. He was having wee accidents 1-3 times a day which hadn't had any before half term.

@ThebigDees as others have said, the settling in period depends on the school, but it's unlikely to last longer than a few weeks, and it won't be any different for a summer born child than for a September born.

That said, he won't be compulsory school age for another year. His parents have the right to send him part time if they wish, or to delay his entry until next year (they can request that he still starts in reception, but the decision lies with the admissions authority).

@BoleynMemories13 unfortunately lots of schools break the admissions code and no one realises until someone puts in a complaint to the DfE (nb I'm not specifically referring to staggered starts)

All schools have some sort of settling period but this could vary from just the first day is a half day, to part time until October and everything in between. But this will be for all the kids regardless of when their birthday is. School should communicate this by the summer but if it’s going to be a headache for them because of childcare they could try asking the school now to get an idea.
They could ask for him to be part time until he’s 5 (compulsory school age) but this is very rarely done these days and he’s likely to be the only one so could miss out on a lot. They could also look into deferring by a year if they feel he’s not ready for school yet. So there are options. If helpful summer born DD started full time immediately (after the settling period) and all was fine, I’m glad we didn’t defer.

My concern is that for parents who have children who benefit from a full-time place from day 1 (children coming from nursery, etc), do not always know that they can legally have that.
Schools often present a phased entry as a 'fait a compli'.

All schools should state that children can cone full-time from day 1.

My children's school does 2 weeks of half days for all reception children.

Each school does it differently.