KS1 Class Sizes

[Pinana]

I'm a Y1/2 teacher and I've just realised that my class next year will be 32 children.

We are 1 form entry and for some reason that defies logic, the school allowed 17 children to start reception this year. Considering that the classes in the school are all mixed-age once children leave YR, it's seems obvious that this will mean an infant class of over 30 at some point. The situation hasn't arisen in the past because we've always been slightly under-subscribed but now the school has grown in popularity and here we are.

I know that a KS1 class of over 30 is considered 'unlawful', and that there is a statutory class size limit of infant classes for KS1 pupils, but what can be done about it if a school allows it to happen?

Obviously my job share partner and I will be contacting our respective unions for advice on this, but just wondered if any fellow teachers had any insight into this situation?

Are there any exceptional circumstances like twins, LAC

The school could be planning a R/Yr1 and Yr1/2 class split.

Will they be waiting to see how many confirmed places in YR before moving children around

If any of the children are excepted, they won't count towards the class size limit, so a class of 32 is lawful if it includes 2 excepted children.

Children are excepted if:

• They were admitted outside the normal admissions round with an EHCP naming the school
• They are LAC or former LAC admitted outside the normal admissions round
• They were missed out from the initial allocation of places for the school due to a mistake
• They were admitted following a successful appeal
• They moved to the area outside the normal admissions round and there were no places available within a reasonable distance
• They are children of UK service personnel admitted outside the normal admissions round
• They are a twin or sibling from a multiple birth of the last child admitted normally
• The have SEN and normally attend an SEN unit attached to the school or are registered at a special school but attend some classes within the mainstream school

If your school has a PAN of 15, it is likely that the two additional children admitted to Reception are excepted. If that is the case, the school will be operating lawfully.

Thanks for responding. The school is definitely not planning a YR/1 split. We had this in the past and the new Head is very much against doing it again - fair enough. There will definitely be 32 children in the Y1/2 class.

There are no LAC involved, but there are twins. However, they didn't get in on appeal so it wasn't their inclusion that pushed the numbers over.

1 child is rarely within the classroom setting due to SEND needs, but even not counting that child (for whom, as teachers, we still need to provide work) there are 31 children.

If twin 1 was the 15th to be admitted then twin 2 becomes an excepted child, so it probably was that. Plus the child with SEN probably also excepted.

What exactly do you want to happen? In practical terms you’ll be one over if the child with SEN isn’t usually in the classroom? Is one extra, presumably legitimately on roll, worth union involvement?

A twin doesn't have to be admitted on appeal to be excepted. If children 15 and 16 on the list for admission are twins, they can both be admitted and one of them is excepted. See my previous post for all the other situations that can lead to a child being excepted.

In the situation you describe, there are three possibilities:

• Two of the children in Reception are excepted. If that is the case, the school will not be in breach of the infant class size limit next year
• The school has decided to admit beyond PAN and has a plan for how to comply with infant class size regulations next year.
• The school has decided to admit beyond PAN and does not have a plan for how to comply with infant class size regulations next year.

No-one on here can say which of these applies in your situation. The only way of finding out which it is would be to ask the head.

I'm not a teacher but my daughter went to a new school and they were the first year in. Reception it was 2 small classes. Then, in year 1, they said they were going to split classes in the morning then join them up in the afternoons which would have meant one class of 36/37 every afternoon. Parents kicked up such a fuss the school changed their minds and split them all day long again. They used the excuse about how they decided not to apply for permission not to include any new children or something.

Now new children have joined so there's 45 ish children in the year so they definitely won't be joining them up now.

I still can’t figure out how they were planning to get away with it as I always thought they couldn't go over 30 but I've heard of lots of classes being 32/33, so the rule about class size obviously isn't super strict.

hi, I’ve been teaching for 18 years and it’s rare for me to have a class that is 30 or under. 31 to 32 is the norm for us in KS1 and it can go slightly higher in KS2.

Would you not be better asking the head what the plans are rather than your union. You have no idea what is being planned by the school to address this. Your union will not know the proposed plans. Would be nice if questions were asked where answers can be given 🙄

Also, the rule is 30 per qualified teacher, not per class.

Seems a bit early to be worried. 10-20% in-year movement of kids is normal so they might not even be there by the time they get to you, and maybe the school is planning to put the oldest kids from what would be your class into the class above, there are lots of different configurations. Keeping the school full keeps it afloat.

Its a breach of the infant class size regulation. Is the PAN 45? Or are these pupils LAC ot another vulnerable group and have come to you after R admission or it was agreed that they would be taken because they are LAC/ other vulnerable pupil or spaces because PAN is 45? Either way you would need paper work to bypass the regulation to go over 30. I would ask this question as it could be that you as a school have a falling roll and they are trying to make the classes work (its not easy with a falling roll) Either way If you go above 30 in KS 1 then you would need to be a 3rd teacher. I think the school are probably trying to pull costs back as all schools are financially struggling and if you only have 4 children over then that's a teacher plus oncosts.

You probably should have posted this on the staffroom for comments more from teachers.

If it's one form entry, do you mean a PAN of 30 but an under subscribed school?

This is what it sounds like. The school can’t just decide to only take 15 if the PAN is 30, even if traditionally they’ve had less than 15 apply so have been able to merge classes. It’s a bloody nightmare from a funding point of view. A school near me with PAN 60 had 32 apply, so they have to run 2 classes but only have just over half the funding…

Id be speaking to the head rather than the union as a first port of call, maybe they have a plan? Im not sure it’s worth the union - is it going to have THAT much of an impact on you as the teacher? Sounds like it’s just 1 extra kid most of the time.

Sounds like PAN is 15. They take 15 in year R - one class, then have composite y1/2, y3/4 and y5/6 classes.

And presumably have 15 y1 and 17 reception currently, who will make up the composite class OP will teach.

When we had this a few years ago, because the LA asked the school to take extra children so that all of the village children got a place, nothing happened, the class was bigger and that was it. I still don't understand how that works, because it is clearly a breach of the law.

Our school has 17 in a year and combined classes but they keep 5 of the Y1 kids technically in the reception class. As they're officially in the reception classroom and with the r teacher, it sorts the legal issue out. The reality is they spend a fair bit of time up with the other Y1s doing phonics and maths, and the whole combined class is split into smaller groups for those activities anyway (for my dd it was not called this but basically foundation (mainly Y1), middle group (higher 1 and lower Y2) and higher). They were very free flow between the classrooms and utilised one another's TAs.

I taught in a large primary. It used to annoy me that I had at least 30 in a class while some in smaller schools had 14.

@RaraRachael very few schools will be able to sustain a single year class of 14.

Quite a few of our local rural schools only have 2 classes, EYFS/KS1 and KS2

And many of the single form schools are having to have some mixed year classes to balance the books

@sittingonabeach I'm in Scotland so it's slightly different.
None of the small coastal schools around me ever has classes of more than 20, usually around 18 with 2 year groups.

I'm a nursery nurse so I wasn't sure quite how it worked in primary.

However I worked in a "rising 3" room, so 2.5-3.5, with a supposed floor space limit of 28 children who regularly booked 30+. When I raised it I was told:

1. it's "building ratio" not floor space
2. you can overbook as there's always a percentage of children off sick or on holiday.

It really bothered me and I felt the quality was lacking. I left.

I work in a small school with mixed year group classes. One year when we had a particularly large intake we registered the children in the Reception class then they joined the Year 1/2 class for the learning. Presumably the Year 1/2 teacher was onboard with this.
In a small school every child really does count. Most schools local to us are being hit with low birth rates (impact from Covid) many that have always been over subscribed have spaces. Some are losing a whole form.
I can see why a Head would be reluctant to turn down those extra two children because for all they know you've lost two children by the following September when they move from Reception to Year 1.

Sorry for not explaining clearly enough - but yes, this is correct as to our class situation.

PAN has been 17 in the past when numbers were low, but now the school has a better reputation so YR is oversubscribed. I think the plan is to reduce the PAN (it obviously should be 15 as Y1 and Y2 are in a mixed age class) but it hasn't happened yet.

A new child has just been admitted into the current Y1 meaning that next year we have 17+15 pupils in the class.

I'm not exactly sure what could/should happen, but what's the point of that cap on KS1 class sizes if the attitude is just a shrug and 'it's only 1 or 2 over'? It shouldn't really be allowed to happen (except in the circumstances stated in a comment above, LAC, etc).

We will talk to the Head, but when we mentioned it briefly yesterday there was a definite 'brushing off' of our concerns, and a quick change of subject. They definitely won't allow a YR/Y1 mix to reduce the class numbers - we've had it in the past, and it has been deemed impractical (which I understand, they're following different curriculums). My only reason to contact the union would be an enquiry rather than any kind of aggressive 'action'.

Of course, ideally more staff would be a good option, but it's still >30 children with 1 qualified teacher. And obviously it's a financial issue.

I know it's still months away, and things can change (although we're quite a 'stable' school in terms of movement) but I'm a self confessed worrier, and the situation is bothering me. But my job-share and I having a proper, scheduled meeting with the Head will I think have to be the next step.

Never knew there was a cap at 30 my child has had 32 every year from reception to year 6. One year I believe there was 33.

Infant KS1 should only be 30 max, I have heard of 31 where there was a fault with the area council who made an error and they got in on appeal. Contact your union.

30 is hard enough especially when you consider extra needs that may or may not qualify for extra help (funding). Gov are starting to back paddle a little and I foresee choppy waters ahead.

good luck.