Year 5 maths - is the jump in difficulty normally this brutal?

[NotAMathsPerson]

My eldest is in Year 5 and it feels like she has hit a massive wall with maths this term. She used to be absolutely fine with it but now fractions and long division are causing actual tears at the kitchen table.

We try to keep homework sessions to 10 or 15 mins max so she doesn't get overwhelmed. But honestly it is just becoming a daily battle. Half the time I feel like I am confusing her more because the methods the school uses are so different to how I learned things.

Are any other parents finding this with Year 5? What actually works for getting them through the tricky topics without everyone ending up totally stressed out? Just feel a bit out of my depth trying to help her at the moment.

I’ve had to engage a maths tutor for my Year 4 DC as she was just lost and we were struggling to help her. It’s entirely unfair on those that don’t have the resources to do this and I’m sure fractions (including irregular fractions) weren’t a thing until secondary or at least upper primary 30 years ago. It’s too much.

I have worked in Y6 for a long time now, and we have never had a year group that we could have feasibly got every child to expected standard, no matter how good the teaching, or how much individual attention or interventions we put in place, because there are always a few children whose SEN mean it's not attainable for them.

Yikes my DC is year 3 and we’re wondering whether to get a maths tutor as they’re really struggling with it all…

Of course, this is nearly always the case. We have slightly skewed cohorts sometimes for reasons I won't go into. Our overall SEND number is actually well above national average, like our PP number, this was just an unusual year group in terms of types of need. My point was you don't need to teach well beyond year group objectives to get children to Expected in Y6. Our results prove that (and these are not the results of children who are tutored or who come from privileged backgrounds. Most don't complete homework even).

Biggest killer is that long division all but dissappears in secondary. It's a pointless thing to learn really. Teach her how to do shirt division with the factors, eg for 450/15 do 450/3 then your answer /5.

I just tried this and it works! It’s a lot more straightforward than the methods taught in y5 and y6 classes. I’m a convert.

Edit to add: its only flaw is that it doesn’t help when dividing by a prime number.

Oh yes, I totally agree with you about not working ahead of the curriculum.
it was more that I just can’t imagine ever having a cohort where everyone is on track for expected standard. I also realise that in some very small schools it’s a regular thing.

It’s also not great if you’re left with a remainder after dividing by the first factor.

In such a question, you’d have to deal with the remainder issue regardless of method used, so I’m still a fan.

That cohort of children coming up to gcse mossed yr 5/6 due to lockdowns.

I have dc approaching gcses and the fact that they are flying and have done well in mocks and have great predicted grades, despite missing vast chunks of UKS2 just makes me think we all worry too much.

My yr 5 doesn't really have homework and doesn't seem worried or stressed either.

I love this response. You're so right 😂 I often remind myself that children make progress just by virtue of growing older and their brains developing. All these tweaks we make in Education around how things are taught no doubt just make the tiniest speck of difference in what children achieve in the end.

Mine isn't flying. He has missed a significant amount of school (Most of Year 3 and didn't start Year 4 until after Easter half term) due to medical reasons and Year 5 is so difficult for him that he has said he doesn't want to go to Year 6 because he knows it'll only get harder.

He is working towards in reading, writing etc but maths is his real struggle and is working well below standards. He is miles and miles behind because he has missed so much. School have things in place to support him but he's always playing catch up and unfortunately, I think he always will and as a result, he absolutely hates maths which also doesn't help.

Not all children who miss large chunks of school are flying.

It's not possible to be left with a remainder assuming you use factors of the divisor, assuming the final answer is a whole number. Obviously decimal answers get a bit more complicated.

Both fractions and division are hugely reliant on quick and accurate times table recall.

If your child doesn't have this then too much cognitive load will be taken up trying to work out and nothing much left for new concepts or methods.

Could a real blast on learning them help?

:(