I have a 7 year old who is racing ahead with Maths, how would you keep him engaged?

[Aislyn]

My year 2 boy is currently working at a year 4 level. He really enjoys maths and is constantly asking me for maths problems at home to solve. We have been using Doodle maths app as well, and he has tested at a year 4 level (he has understanding well into the year 4 curriculum).

We will continue to use doodle at home, as well as arithmetic which he genuinely loves, but I am wondering how else to ensure he stays challenged and engaged. He is very distractible, so it is possible that his ability is not fully recognised at school.

He goes to a state primary. Would you recommend discussing with the teacher? Any other resources that you would recommend at home?

He’s the right age to learn an instrument. Piano is especially good for the mathematical imo (and easy to live with because of good quality keyboards with headphones) but give him a choice of instruments to pick if you can.

Chess.

Our experience in primary school was as others describe - Dd was told to “teach” the other children once she had finished, or to read a book.
She’s very diligent, so persevered hard with teaching her peers (which she basically had to do for about half of every maths lesson in primary school), but I don’t feel it was popular with those being taught, and she hated it and felt flustered by them messing around and not listening to her. I remember in year 4 her saying to me “ well, at least I know I don’t want to ever be a teacher when I grow up!”

She professed to dislike maths until she finally got to secondary school and got put into the top set, made friends with others who were good at maths and finally could enjoy some stretching and friendly competition, and started talking about maths with enthusiasm again.

She got so turned off maths by primary school she refused to engage with it at all outside the bare minimum - and she still finished before everyone else and had to teach them.
She did enjoy music - particularly music theory - and languages, and that’s what she focused on more outside school instead.

She’s now in year 11 doing an advanced maths qualification alongside gcse, and planning to do maths A level next year (and music and two modern languages.)

My DS is very much like this. He is now 11 and is currently working on GCSE maths problems because he finds the level he's at unchallenging.

At you sons stage I would be working on quality and consistency. How accurate is he in his answers? I'd be aiming for 95-100% accuracy at a consistent rate. This way you know it's not just curiosity but consistent ability.

Once he's mastered that then if the school won't push him further then either look at online schooling platforms to run alongside his mainstream school to let him explore more maths subjects at the next level or if you can, maybe consider home schooling.

We took our DS out in year 6 and home schooled him. He focused on Maths, English and Computer science and was at least a year ahead when he started Year 7. This gave him a lot of confidence for secondary school knowing he's ahead academically and can just focus on getting settled in. This has also allowed him to try new subjects and discover things he also likes (cooking, Judo and languages).

He's said since he was younger that he wants to do a maths degree, so our job is just to get him the right GCSEs and A levels to get him there. It was very obvious from an early age this would be his path and it's been a challenge to get him interested in anything else.

My DD is also gifted academically but across a wider range of subjects. She's in Y4 but is starting to get bored, so we may do the same for her. She says school is just too easy and wants to be pushed. Her teacher is trying but it's a challenge with 30 kids to look after.

Like you we suspect DS is ADHD. We haven't chased a diagnosis but have made choices based on this fact. His school has marked him as 'suspected' and are treating him as such. He is adamant he does not want to take medication, so we do everything outside of that to support him and he's doing very well.

With his abilities, I'm wary to be honest of chasing a diagnosis as I'm concerned that down the line there may be a back lash of discrimination in society and this may inadvertently make life harder for him not easier. Society as a whole has never been consistent in it's understanding of ND people and I don't want him to fall foul of that.

Our experience with DS (currently in Y3) was that the state school kept the class together so much so his school reports until last July always had him at expected level never exceeding as they never went through the points above expected.
When he finished the work he became the "mini teacher" or read.
Last term we took the decision to move him to a private school where they do differentiate on ability within the class. There he took the InCAS assessment and was assessed at the level of an 11 year old for maths.

At home we extend into chemistry, physics and engineering. We also get puzzle books with sudukus and logic puzzles as well as word puzzles to ensure he's not just focusing on maths. Our DD is currently studying for the 11+ and has the bond books. DS wanted the same so got the Y3 version but told him he can't get any more maths books unless the English is completed as well so he doesn't just focus on what he is good at.

My y2 daughter is in a similar place. She's learning chess and is starting an external chess club in January, and we do lots of calculations playing other board games - she likes to work out change and whether multipacks are value for money when we shop. She also has science sets (chemistry, physics, engineering) and sinple coding things.

Great advice. Reading through this list and realising this happened without deliberately setting out to do it, just that is where interest took them and they were fortunate enough to be surrounded by wider-family to encourage. Also incredibly self-motivated with card games and card tricks around age 9/10, taught themselves loads of things via YouTube.

Music is a fantastic one to develop because 1) genuinely do think it lights up different areas in the brain and also gives them a very healthy way to self-sooth for life. 2) It introduces also work/reward concept early, which if academic things generally come very easily to your DC, the idea that a bit of graft pays off is really useful for the teenage years where very few get away without doing a tap.

Definitely sideways with things like physics, coding, stuff that is maths based but not moving them ahead in the curriculum. They just end up bored out of their minds in primary, I have been in classrooms so know they teach to the middle and the high ability children are "challenged" but not really. Even in secondary they are timetabled, all the teachers are teaching and the desks are all full so no room to bring a year 7 child into a year 9 above classroom in a state school.

Ds2 had just started year 4 when he came to an open evening at secondary for Ds1 for year 7. Ds2 could solve the hardest questions they posted around the room. It is hard to try to tamp down their love of maths but you have to go sideways not above and feed it another way. Mine had lots of logic games, strategy board games, circuits science stuff, sudoku and chess against the computer.

Ds2 spent year 11 getting 96% or more on every maths GCSE past paper from all the different boards, totally bored out of his mind but there were no further maths teachers so he just had to twiddle his thumbs. He went onto maths and further maths A levels, as did Ds1 and both did a heavy maths degrees.

Thank you for all the responses. It is sad that it sounds like state school is a whole lot of boredom lined up for him.

Would it be worth racing ahead in order to prepare him for the 11+? (We have state grammars locally).

In terms of other areas: he is up to speed with reading, and generally ahead of his peers (many of whom struggle to read, we are in an area of high deprivation), he is ball mad and enjoys and plays lots of football. I have him on the waiting list to start music lessons, which he is keen on. He also enjoys swimming and loves his swimming lessons.

He would be totally unable to teach other children at primary, despite being bright himself, due to his distracrability.

I will research the sideways options shared above

It's a bit early to start prepping for the grammar school tests - you've got four years! You risk him losing interest if you start too soon. It sounds like he's on track to do well in them anyway.

Just keep him engaged and not too pressured ... give him fun mathsy books like the Martin Gardner annotated edition of Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass ... as long as he's still enjoying learning, he'll be fine.

If it’s still around, Dragon Box

My sister claimed for years that algebra was a game. Turned out she was right. Even more fun than tetris. I got to the top level available and didn’t get the family maths gene, so can only do it on the app, not paper, but my ADHD brain loved it and if I was mathy it would probably have translated into more traditional exercises.

I wouldn't start 11+ prep yet we only got the books because he wanted the same as his sister.

Another thing our DS loves is Lego. They also have Lego education kits where they can learn coding. The kits are expensive but some of the libraries around us have them and you can book onto free sessions to use them.

The problem with high IQ kids with ADHD is that at the beginning of their education things are easy and they are flying. My DC was reading fluently before starting R, was, like yours years ahead in maths, etc.
I always knew on some level that they probably had different attention span, but it was not an issue academically in primary - and teachers never suggested testing, saying it’s not needed if I asked.

Things do change in secondary, especially in the years approaching GCSE curriculum. The amount of work increases, and so is the breadth and depth of the various subjects.
And this is where kids like that run into trouble - as previously the IQ let them fly without needing to develop learning strategies for their different attention.

I had friends with older kids and I saw what can happen if a diagnosis is delayed and kids don’t get right support. GSCE/A-level exams are hard - and no reason not to make sure your kid has accommodations, if this is what is requited to make sure they have a level playing field.

I am just saying all of this to keep in mind, even if secondary seems far away for you. It’ll be here sooner than you think. Assessments take time, especially if you need to go via school/GP. I’d find out how long it takes where you are and start in time to get it in place by Year 9, so that your son has the right support and accommodations in his GCSE years.

As to extending your son’s maths - there are lots of materials. I’d make sure to give him a lot of world problems - not just get him to learn more and harder concepts.

In addition to nrich, have a look at these books - Maths Plus Word Problems - they have great extension problems.

For practicing maths skills - we have always used Schofield and Sims books - took them
with us on vacations for extra practice before 11+, for eg.

Also - have a look at Primary Maths Challenge website. It has past papers and materials. He is probably a bit young for this - but you’ll see that being good at maths often means not just being able to do, say, differentials at a young age - but being able to solve complex problems applying often fairly simple maths.

https://www.primarymathschallenge.org.uk/

In addition - have a look in your area -
where we live there are weekend maths clubs and those could be fun for a right kind of kid.

Here are loads of benefits to a diagnosis. ADHD if present, will likely manifest in potential tilly problematic ways at some point down the line. The waiting lists are so long that nothing will happen foe a long time anyway.
With regard to being at user 4 level. How do you know? I'm not sure just completing year 4 workbooks would be proof of that. I would speak to his teacher, although in my experience I'm not sure what benefit that will be. Have you considered an academic prep? Could you pay or investigate a bursary?
At home, does he learn a musical instrument? Music theory has lots on common with maths and would be a nice way of providing some depth to his experience. Good luck!

These are very wise words.

Can I ask what's a space engineer lodge? I looked it up but only found a computer game. My son is the same, loves maths and I'd love to find a way for him to explore it through play. Thanks.

A person who was a space engineer lived with them I think!

Have a look where you live - in many places you may be able to find programming, science or maths clubs.
If you can’t find them in real life - there are online resources. Documentaries, trips to museums.

Also - look at STEM focused toys and certainly lego.

Two things

1. I have a keen maths learner. He loves coding club and does a lego robotics camp for a week in the summer. Also dungeons and dragons was a huge win - surprisingly maths themed. Lots of other board games too. And he just picked up trombone and loves it, it’s a great stretch option.

1. If you and the teachers think it’s worth considering an assessment for ADHD, you should peruse it now. It will be another 4-5 years before it happens anyway but if you want you won’t be able to get any accommodations for exams or university. My daughter showed signed of things young but I delayed it (then covid) so we are 18 months into the waitlist for her autism assessment and there’s a chance it might not happen before exams. Luckily our school will work with us with or without a diagnosis but there are a lot of options that only happen if you have that bit of paper. Worst case you’re told it’s not needed later. The move from primary to secondary can be hugely triggering for neurodivergent kids so you might find that’s when the situation gets really difficult really quickly.

The advice to shift his interest into other areas rather than supporting his passion for maths makes my teeth itch. Get him interesting maths puzzle books and talk to him about maths, root out the conceptual problem-solving stuff that makes maths interesting to mathematicians but doesn’t fit into most school curricula.

I'd 100% agree with this assessment. Ask where your DC sits on the standardised scale so you know whether he's top 20% nationally, top 10% or top 1%. Obviously there is a massive difference. In our experience, the top 20% can be extended via mastery but that doesn't work for the top 1% who just get frustrated and, quite frankly, pissed off at being used as teachers aids.

We've had a varied experience. Some teachers will push on ahead. We had one great teacher who said mastery with our DC was ridiculous. That was a rare "kindred spirit / remember them forever inspirational teacher. We've had others who have really tried to hold them back in line with policy and it's been really really tough. Parenting gifted kids isn't always easy.

Stretching sideways in other ways is helpful. If they are strong at arithmetic, try problem solving solutions. We had one teacher who used to slip DC problem solving homework from Year 6 when they were in Year 2. That's kind of what Nrich is.

Chess is another idea.

Deffo speak to the teacher though as they'll be able to give you a better steer on where exactly your kid sits.

This isn’t about redirection. Science activities, robotics, programming, engineering - all support and develop love of maths.
In 6yo he is too young to really know what his passion is - and it’ll evolve. Maths - is the only really STEM’y subject at school st that age - so many quant-talented kids gravitate towards that originally.
I help out in a weekend maths club - so I have seen how kids develop. And with bright kids it’s important to expose them to a range of STEM fields - so they can later choose what’s right for them.

By all means - puzzle books and problem solving. But also - understanding that maths is at the core of a lot of areas in the physical world.

Yes some suggestions were good, I more meant the musical instrument or spend more time on other subjects advice. But I do think leaning into a child’s actual passion is the best thing to do - my best friend at school was like this and had parents who supported it and she ended up top of her year for maths at Oxford still enjoying it, which she wouldn’t have if she’d been redirected away from her real enjoyment of maths into somewhat related activities. I think there can be some tall poppy syndrome around children excelling in one area and good enough in others rather than being all rounders

@AutumnClouds

Agreed. And happy for your friend. But not all ‘passions’ at 6yo persist - so it’s great to support and expose kids to many adjacent areas as this will allow them to develop broadly and to find their true passions when they are more mature. Also - true passion will not be quashed by exposure to lego and programming. And as to music - multiple studies demonstrate that musical training often enhances brain functions related to mathematical reasoning. As both music and maths rely on patterns, sequences and structures. Gifted mathematicians are often gifted in music too.

In my DC’s experience of early passion for maths - among her little group of friends that went through maths clubs, competitions, top sets and extensions at school - one is doing Maths, few are doing Physics/Engineering; one doing Economics - all heavily mathematical degrees, all at Oxbridge. And a couple went into other sciences - like Neuro, Medicine and Chemistry.

Good luck with your son, OP 🤗🤗

Absolutely, all of that sounds great. There were a few posts that seemed to be suggesting only doing non-maths activities though, almost to even him up, which is what I don’t think is fair on a child.

Check out the UK Maths Trust and make sure he does the Junior Maths Challenge... school should arrange this. I can't remember the earliest you can take it... year 4 or 5 I think? The practice papers will be fun for him.