What’s the chances for out of area admissions for Reception

[ShinyBadger]

I live in a rural area with one tiny village school in my catchment area. I really do not want my child to go there for many reasons but the main one is I do not them to be at the same school as their cousins.

I have looked at many schools all out of catchment but one school I looked at is 9.1 miles from me and I love the school, ethos, Location, the children were so happy and I just loved everything about it. A bonus is it’s a 4 min drive from my work.

The other 3 schools are also out of catchment at 4.2,6.3 and 4.7 miles.

The criteria for the school at 9.1 miles the last admission criteria was a 4 which is all other applicants….

Now do I go for it and put that one down as my number one - but I highly doubt we will get a place and then hope we get school 2 or 3 or do I just need to forget about it and put school 2 as my first choice?

Obviously I haven’t done this before, I don’t want to waste our “first Choice” on the application and jeopardise a potential place at the second choice school.

any suggestion’s?

You don't lose a chance at a school by putting it second. All preferences are read against the criteria together and equally, it only makes a difference if you wpuld have qualified for more than one school (in which case you will get the place at the school you ranked highest as a preference).

The schools don't know whether you've put them down as first or second or whatever choice. They only know you've applied. The local authority sends all those schools your application, they each say yes or no, and then the LA gives you the highest-ranked one on your list which has said yes.

That's why it's always best to put your schools in your true order of preference. Put down the faraway one as #1 and if they say yes, great. If they say no and your #2 choice says yes, you'll get #2. If both those say no, you'll get #3. And so on.

You'd be wise to put your village school as last choice, even though you don't want it, because it's better to be given a school than have no school at all. If that happens, the LA will find you somewhere eventually, but it will be stressful.

Definitely put your first choice first and your village school as last choice (unless you would genuinely prefer to drive hours to a different school).

In relation to how likely it is you'd get the school 9.1 miles away: what was their furthest distance offered last year? (Sorry if I missed this in your OP)

This has nailed it. I’m still amazed at the amount of parents who have no idea how admissions work.

Yes as others say, you should put your genuine first choice down as first on the pref list – this will not jeopardise your chance of a place at any other school.

But yy you should put the local school down somewhere – last pref by all means – as otherwise you may risk an unpopular school a long way away.

What we mean by that is that the LA is not obligated to give you any of your prefs if other people qualify before you (ie live closer) and list them. So then they give you the closest school that has places – which may be a good distance away and clearly not a popular one.

How many choices do you get? and yes, what was the furthest offered distance for the schools you prefer last year?

Bear in mind btw that a close school can be a good thing (other things being equal obvs) – your DC in year 5 and 6 can walk on their own and start towards independence, which they cannot do if it's a 9-mile drive.

Doesn’t matter in the order because the school doesn’t know. Don’t list the local school if you really are sure about not having your child there. There used to be a section on the form where you could add extra information as to why you needed a specific school, I used it because we were advised to put my girls into separate schools. You can state near your work and the cousin issue

Do you have more than one child? If so check the admissions criteria - ours had siblings out of catchment below all catchment children. So if I got lucky and got my DC1 in a far away school there was no guarantee my DC2 would get in, and that would have been a big headache. If you have an only child you can just go for your favourite school as choice 1.

Tbf tho unless there is some safeguarding-type reason for avoiding the cousins, that will carry no weight. School admissions do not consider your logistics of getting there in allocating a place either.

I would still say list the local school unless you would rather be allocated an unpopular school 10 miles in the wrong direction. I assume btw that the 4-miles-away schools are your next nearest? in other words you live very rurally?

Definitely put your preferred one first, otherwise you have no chance at all. It won’t jeopardise your chances at the others. I also agree with pp you should put your local one last, so that you have something rather than be left to be centrally allocated in the worst case.

Importantly (certainly in my county) they never publish the distance the furthest pupil on the waiting list was. The stats are published based on first round offers, and then there’s any movement, so the 4 miles may not actually be the final distance.

Would you have got into the school in previous years? If in previous years, that school only took children within 1 mile, its probably best to look for another school you like. If it never fills its places, it sounds a fantastic option.

As PPs have said though... having a speculative first preference doesn't effect your chances if local school as long as you list it somewhere. Preferences only come into play if you qualify for more than one school.

You can usually look up the PAN (Published Admission Number, which is the maximum number of pupils the school will admit into a specific year group each year), and then compare it to the number of children they have actually admitted over the last few years. This will give you an idea if your chosen school generally has an intake lower than the PAN, which, if it was, would make it more likely that an out-of-catchment child would get a place.

Use your genuine preference order. You never know what might happen because you don't have the stats for how many kids there are in the age cohort. If there's fewer kids than there are school places the first choice school radius might go up to 10km. Or if there are loads of applications they might decide they need a "bulge" class (where one school admits a whole class worth extra for just one year).

However - important - if there are any schools whatsoever within the LA that would be worse than your catchment school, then PLEASE put your catchment schoolas your last choice. If you put down 3 choices that you have no chance for, then you will not automatically get given the catchment school, you will be given a place at the nearest undersubscribed school which could be a barely-adequate unpleasant school 2 hours in the opposite direction to your workplace.

I think you need to do some further research. You really need to know the furthest distance offered for the last few years, for your first choice and the others that you are interested in - the LEA should be able to tell you that. As you have correctly been told already, allocations are done on an equal preference system so putting a school first doesn't increase your chances of getting a place and nor does it reduce your chance of a place at your second preference if you aren't allocated your first. But do think carefully about the possible implications of using up your preferences on schools that you realistically have virtually zero chance of a place at. Take your first preference at 9.1 miles. If you discover that the last place offered was less than half a mile away for each of the last 5 years then you know that short of some kind of miracle you are not going to be offered a place and will probably be a long way down the waiting list. That won't affect your chances of getting your second or third preference but what it does effectively do is prevent you listing another school that you might have much bigger chance of a place at. And be very careful that you don't use up all your preferences on schools you have a very low chance of getting into. If that happens all the LEA is obliged to do is offer you a place at the nearest school to your home with a space after everyone else has been placed. Particularly given that you live rurally that could be a long way, potentially in completely the opposite direction to your work.
The advice to list your preferences in the genuine order is good advice, but I would temper that with pragmatism. Using one slot on an "aspirational" choice is fair enough, but I think it's worth differentiating between an "I know this is unlikely but if it's a low birth rate year and I get lucky there might just be a place" type long shot and an "I don't have a cat in hell's chance of a place here unless a meteor strike obliterates the new housing estate they've just built right next to the school" type of long shot!

Was it 4) all other applicants - all applicants admitted or,
4) all other applicants - last child offered a place 1 / 7 / 20 miles?

Depends how likely you are to get a place. Still worth putting first though if thats what you really want.

@MerryGuide I think the OP means that their DC would fall under category 4 in admissions terms – ie they are not an LAC or sibling. The admission categories would not normally show how far away DC were admitted previously, tho for sure that info should be available.

Great post from @MrsAvocet – I agree there's little point listing a 9-mile-away school if last year it filled its places with children from half a mile away.

And this: And be very careful that you don't use up all your preferences on schools you have a very low chance of getting into.

I am inferring though that @ShinyBadger lives in a very rural area. I live in an urban area and most DC local to me go to one of about six primaries, depending on religious affiliation, preference for very small school, preference for through primary and just basic locality – all are less than two miles from me. Listing a school in the next village (outstanding and very popular) would be a waste of time even tho it's only about three miles away as it fills its places from much closer in. But as I say, I assume the OP is in a different situation. Are there schools nearer than 4 miles (apart from the village one you want to avoid)?

You are right @clary that things can be very different in rural areas but I would argue that detailed research and local knowledge are possibly even more important. When you are dealing with schools with very small PANs, relatively insignificant changes in local demographics can make a big difference to the likelihood of a place, whereas the same changes would probably just be swallowed up in an urban area with several multi form entry schools in the locality.
As an example of what I mean, years ago one of my ex colleagues was applying for Reception for her DC, and like the OP didn't like the school in her village. For her first preference she put school A which is a very oversubscribed school that most years can't even take all the children from within catchment and she was about 5 miles away. I told her I thought it was pointless but she took the "well you never know and you've got to be in it to win it" approach. Then she listed two other schools, B and C, both about 3 miles from home and on the way to work. Not stupid choices, some years she would have got either of them and being en route to work is sensible. But neither was a dead cert, both probably about a 50:50 likelihood going by previous data. She figured she'd be unlucky not to get either. And she was unlucky. It only takes a few new houses to be built in sparsely populated areas, or a couple of sets of twins and a "likely" place disappears. And then of course she'd not listed D, her catchment school, at all so she didn't get in there either as they'd filled with out of catchment kids. She did eventually get a place at D from the waiting list but a great deal of angst could have been saved if she had put B,C,D instead of wasting a slot on A.
So whilst people often say that you've nothing to lose by putting somewhere improbable as your first preference I don't think that's always true and if you're going to do it you need to think very carefully about which other schools you list.
Another thing to consider about rural areas is that the distance by road can be vastly different to straight line distance, so it's really important to know how it's measured. Lots of people are mystified by how kids from our village get into a popular secondary school when others who live much nearer by road don't. It's because they measure distance in a straight line and by that we are only a few miles away. There's 2 lakes and some blooming big mountains in the way though, so it's over 20 miles by road. So the OP also needs to check that carefully. I know it can be an issue in towns too but I don't think you're likely to get quite as much disparity between straight line distance and distance by road in most urban areas.

Thank you for all your replies, I didn’t know so many people would comment. I would say my post was poorly worded.

I wasn’t aware how school places were allocated so thank you for letting me know.

There is a school in our village that has 42 people in it, I really don’t want that one as mentioned. It is not in walking distance and I would have to drive to the school if she was placed there. The next closest school over is 2 miles but again has only 52 people.

The last two years have been low birth rate years and all the schools have said if you like us put us down as your year is a low birth rate year too so the chances of getting in to us is very high. Last year the school I like for 2nd place had 9 pupils short for thier reception intake.

I will see if there is a way to find out about the distance for the school I like and it may just have to be a pipe dream!

That sounds hopeful @ShinyBadger If you have a high probability of getting a place at your second preference there's not much risk to putting the 9 mile away school as first preference. As long as you ensure that you have a school in second or third place that is acceptable to you and that you are as sure as you can be that you'll qualify for there is no harm in putting a long shot first. Just make sure you've read and understood the admissions criteria for each school, do a bit of research and don't use every preference up on schools that you've got a low chance of success with.