Which primary school would you pick?

[thelittlestbird]

In a real pickle trying to decide which order of preference to apply for our two local rural primary schools in. DD1 is in catchment / fulfils criteria for both, so getting a place isn’t a concern.

Can you help me to see the wood for the trees please? Are there any important factors I’ve missed?

For context, DD1 is extremely bright. Her pre school teacher (qualified, not nursery practitioner) suggested she would have been able to start Reception in the September just gone and not struggled. She will turn 4 later this month.

School 1:
~ less than a minute’s walk from our house (I’ve timed it!)
~ 15 pupils per year, mixed year groups (so years 1&2, 3&4 and 5&6 are taught together)
~ DD is very familiar with it having attended playgroups etc there
~ new headteacher (current deputy) takes over from January - we won’t have chance to meet them before application deadline
~ feedback from parents with children there is very mixed - people seem to either rave about it or have said ‘definitely don’t send DD’
~ people familiar with the school have said it’s pretty lax on encouraging parents engage with their kids’ homework / reading etc - I worry this represents a poor attitude to education
~ results show 0% of 2024 SATS cohort worked at greater depth (I think that’s the right terminology - and this REALLY concerns me)

School 2:
~ situated in the next village to us - a five minute car drive, likely more during rush hour, and in the opposite direction to DD2’s nursery
~ outstanding results - more than two thirds of 2024 cohort working at greater depth - and excellent reputation locally
~ 30 pupils per class, no mixed year teaching
~ unanimous great feedback from parents we know with children there

Both have great outdoor spaces and suitable wraparound care options.

We have toured school 2 and were reasonably impressed, not blown away but we have no points of comparison! We are having a 1-2-1 tour of school 1 in a few weeks.

It feels ridiculous to not choose the smaller-class option on our doorstep, since the SATs results of the latest cohort don’t really paint a picture of how well DD1 will do in seven years!

Please help me.

If your child is very able, it may be difficult to keep her motivated in a small class with mixed year groups. Thinking of her being in year 6, for example, with year 5 children. It should be straightforward in a small group to meet the needs of each child, but you say no one reached greater depth last year. I’d want to know the reason for that.

I think I’d go for the further away school, with better academic outcomes, particularly for an able child.

With regards the greater depth, is it 0% every year? With only 15 in a year group you'd get quite a bit of variability year to year - a Year 6 class with more summer born and more boys will do worse on average than one with more autumn born girls.

At my child's school it was 0% a couple of years ago for reading, maths, writing combined - because no child was marked as greater depth in writing (which I think - but might be wrong - is assessed by class teacher rather than a standardised test). A decent percentage of children did achieve the greater depth in reading and/or maths but that's not given in the headline figures (but can be seen on Government website).

Edited to say that with only 15 in a year be careful not to over interpret percentages.

I would go form school 2 if you've only heard good things. But you're in a good place to have a choice of two you'd be happy with, including if you need to move her in the future.

It feels ridiculous to not choose the smaller-class option on our doorstep

School one isn't a smaller class size though because they are teaching two lots of 15 together so it's still a class of 30.

Thank you @Buscobel. I have no experience of mixed year groups, and you’ve hit the nail on the head with my concerns. Some people have said that she’ll benefit from being with the older kids - but that’ll be followed by a year of being bored, right?!

I’m planning to ask about the greater depth results when we tour the school, but I’m also super conscious that smaller classes = more easily skewed stats.

Thanks for your comment.

@pitterypattery00AFAIK it’s only the most recent cohort’s results that are available on the gov website, but I will see if I can ferret out previous years’ figures too. Could be a complete anomaly!

@WarrenTofficiera good point! I’d not be working at greater depth in maths or comprehension, would I (I blame being tired…)

@HannahSternsBlousehopefully that’s true. I should ask the question (of both schools) about in-year moves and whether classes are typically full.

I think you can access them on Locrating - but you need to pay for access (I paid for one months access, around £10, when I was choosing school - in my case because I wanted to know our chances of getting into certain schools - but I'm pretty sure academic data were there for several years). The school themselves might have them on their website or be able to provide them.

The best advice I got was this (I was similar to you OP and did have a focus on education as my DC is bright too)

For primary school not only is academic important but also their social development. It’s a key time to learn making friends, dealing with falling out etc. Make sure it’s a school they feel comfortable in. A bright child can be pushed at home by parents if needed but you can’t make your child happy at school.

Ask the schools about staff turn over and their bullying policies.

I would pick school 1. I'd pick the smaller school on my doorstep. It's a part of your community. It doesn't matter if the push homework or not. If you want your child to do homework or reading you'll do that with them. Mine do homework every night and the school really set anything. I'm happy to point you in the right direction for resources. Mybgirls are year 1 and 2. Realistically, at her age you want to focus on phonics, letter and number formation. That can be done in a fun and engaging way without the heaps of worksheets and crap sent home.

@pitterypattery00ah, I had access to Locatring via a teacher friend but I didn’t look that deeply. I will revisit, and thanks for the tip about being able to pay for just a month.

Agree. OP - you can look a bit closer at the SATS results, if that’s what’s concerning you. The headline figure is for “greater depth” in all three of reading, maths and writing. I believe writing is teacher assessed, though I could be wrong. My kids’ school does worse than nearby schools on this metric because few seem to get GD in writing, but more than 50% are at GD in reading and maths, whereas the other schools are at around 20%. It’s possible to look at the results in so many different ways.

As long as the commute to school 2 is totally fine, even if it’s a bit more than a few seconds, I’d pick the one that you like most when you look around. As someone who agonised over school preferences, I’ve now decided that they are probably mainly much of a muchness, and the stuff that will have most of an impact on your child (classmates, which teacher they get each year, what they turn out to be like, which teachers leave or retire) is not necessarily stuff that hours of research can help with! Both choices sound like they would work out well!

@Hotchocolateandsnow thank you for this valuable perspective. It’s very much DH’s view (he was terribly unhappy at school) and I’m often guilty of focusing too much on academic achievement at the expense of other stuff. Your post was a very helpful reminder!

No problem. Note that 2025 KS2 results by school aren't available anywhere yet - I think scheduled for release in December.

To be fair they may have a class of 15 in reception - or they may mix them with preschool.

Go look at the school the best metric is absolutely the feel and how you think your child will fit in.
Mine were in what sounds like your school 2 - they had classmates leave to join what sounds like your school 1 (where they thrived) only for that vacant space to be filled by child from school 1 that was deeply unhappy there.

Also totally agree with this!

@Koochmarelative to the commute to school 1, the journey to school 2 will be a total pain in the arse. Through a very congested village that I find very stressful to drive through. But it’s a journey we make anyway pretty regularly so I’d be happy to suck it up.

tbh, it’s not so much the headline stats that concern me - you know what they say about statistics! - but I’m VERY keen that she goes somewhere that academic endeavour and learning for learning’s sake is valued and encouraged. Maybe that isn’t something to be found at any primary school really, though, and it’ll come more from her home life (it already does tbh).

@WarrenTofficier yes they do only have 15 in reception. Her current preschool (attached to a high achieving independent school, we can’t afford the fees…) is giving her an excellent grounding in what to expect from reception. They’re also doing great work re phonics and handwriting and numbers @WhatAKnob47 so I’m confident that she has a good grasp and is very interested!

I would ignore the stats - small cohorts render them invalid and even OfSted recognises that.

I have a very bright GC in Yr 6 in a small primary where he has Year 5 pupils in his class. He is fine. It really all depends on the school and how they deal with this - ask the school about this when you visit.

Socially your son might be better off at a school one minute away - as he gets older he will be able to visit his mates more easily - it matters a lot to them.

Also it is worth remembering that childhood is not just about getting educated.

I’d ask about the sats greater depth thing certainly but it likely wouldn’t sway my decision one way or another. I’d usually be all for choosing a school you didn’t need to drive to.

i would however be concerned about less friendship possibilities and less extra curricular opportunities in a smaller school

Absolutely primary school is about more than academics and you want your child to be happy – but how bright are we talking about? Being bored for large chunks of the day does not make for a happy child either, and 'stretching sideways' out of school with languages, music, etc. doesn't entirely make up for it. And it does also help to have some peers who are working at a similar level, particularly as they get older and more aware of things like that socially.

School 2, without a doubt.

School 2
it’s getting better results,
more social opportunities
more children = more funding, staff ,equipment resources.
It’s less that 10 minutes nursery will only be a few years then younger child will join the school too.
You have to like the feeling of the school and feel it will suit your family. How they deal with discipline, manors, religion look at the bullying policy and read the prospectus ask about homework look at school is it clean well maintained and have sufficient grounds for play/sports activities is there space to lock bikes at school.
It’s a big choice we picked the closest and ended up moving them due to array of different issues which is disruptive to the kids but always an option.

What sort of “5 minute drive” is it? Thanks to the traffic lights 100m from my house it took more than 5 mins driving to get to my kids’ primary school which was walkable.

But 5 mins drive could be over 5 miles away.

I’m thinking about when she is older - would she be able to cycle by her self?