Anybody have experience of a mixed Reception/Year 1 /Year 2 class?

[AnneMarieW]

DD is at Nursery in a small state primary. Unfortunately the school has recently had to merge their Reception class into the Year 1/Year 2 class due to falling pupil numbers and budgetary problems.

I do like the school and it’s our closest one but it will now mean DD going from spending a couple of hours a day in a class of about 8 other 3 year olds (she only goes in the mornings), to spending all day in a class of more than 30 4 to 7 year olds if she stays there next year. It’s a big change and I’m not sure how well she will cope as she is quite shy and easily overwhelmed.

So I am considering sending her to another school next year - either with a smaller Reception class size or a mixed Nursery/Reception class. Based on last years council data, she should easily get in to other schools but I had originally hoped she could be at a school closer to home.

Is anyone’s child in a big mixed class like this or has anyone taught in such a class?
Thanks for any advice.

If the child is shy then definitely go for as large a school as possible. Shy children do not do well in small schools.
In a large school the child has much more chance of finding her tribe and making friends.
Small schools can often struggle to cope with SEN children with challenging behaviours due to lack of space, resources and staff. In small classes challenging behaviour can disproportionately affect the experience of other children due to the smaller numbers.

I would be worrying about future budget cuts at this school due to falling numbers. Sports teams must be non existent and what about quality of music and drama? Do they have an orchestra? What about after school clubs? It’s all very well looking at YR but opportunities beyond ks1 could be very limited with around 10-12 in a year group. Never mind limited friendship opportunities. How many will be girls?

This was my experience too. They didn't really start doing lots of sitting down until class 2.

It sounds awful. Look elsewhere

@Somnambule So what happens to the very bright dc who can read well and are advanced at maths? Learning can be great via play but some dc outgrow that fairly quickly and need a more taught curriculum. Trying to work in a play atmosphere will hold some dc back.

Where there are falling rolls there will be space if the school organises mixed classes but often won’t have the staff to split the group of dc so some dc won’t have the more advanced curriculum they need .

When my DD was in YR they had 60 dc in a “hen and chickens” classroom. This meant there were quiet spaces off the large room. The dc did their reading, writing and maths in this room but did learning through play in the big room. This school now has an intake of 120. I suspect they can no longer use this room for YR but the school was brilliant for most dc - there were quiet areas in the big room and luckily no noisy out of control dc! Lots of friendship opportunities and just a well run, high quality school. It was noticeable how much more advanced socially (and in sport and music) than the tiny village school dc were when they arrived at the next phase middle school for y3. What seems cosy and family oriented at age 4 can feel limited by3 and definitely beyond.

@TizerorFizzwhy do you dislike small schools so much? You pop up on all these threads spouting doom & gloom as though it applies to all small schools equally. There are hundreds of of small & tiny schools across the country especially in rural areas. Not every single one of those schools is on the verge of closure, nor are they deprived, & offer a poor experience to pupils. SOME small schools won’t work for SOME children, just like medium/big schools won’t work for some child.
Small schools obviously have limitations - absolutely, our school doesn’t have a hall, or an IT suite - that doesn’t mean the children don’t get to put on plays, do sports, use technology, they just adapt to the situation - they hire the village hall, utilise outdoor space in the village, have smart screens & iPads in class.
Many small schools actually get more funding - scarcity funding, funding to hire premises to recompense for not having a hall. A good Head will utilise those funds well to enrich the experience of the pupils. Our Head is like this - our children go swimming every week from Yr3-6; they attend inter-school sporting events; every child can participate in sports fixtures or plays - not just the best ones.
And yes my DD was/is one of advanced ones & the teachers make sure she is stretched, provide harder work, help others etc. So yes, even in a mixed class those high achieving pupils can be supported just like those who require additional support. You need the right teachers & TAs - but that is true whichever school you go to & whatever size it is.

@APurpleSquirrelI have worked in Education and seen issues locally, and with friends, that have arisen with small schools. I think where you have a choice you should weigh up everything. It’s very easy to just look at YR and think it’s just right. Later on I’ve seen numerous issues including 50% of dc bailing out from one school. With falling roles it’s a risk that dc retain friends and schools will become very short of money. Parents are then asked for more and more. Money and time.

Obviously swimming can be provided. LA makes provision only for y6 here. No school has swimming funded below that. No one gets swimming from y3 as it’s unaffordable. Sports - no teams competing in leagues. Many dc love representing their school. They relish the challenge. There cannot be a full programme of music and with 2 - 3 teachers and 60 dc. Teaching quality is a massive gamble. Just 1 teacher being poor and it’s 50% of the teaching staff being poor. You then have teaching heads. They are frazzled. This happens time and time again.

Yes, some dc have friends throughout but if they are older, they leave. What if you don’t find friends? Often is friends via parent cliques. There also might not be a top table of bright dc. This is very true when many dc are privately educated in a location. Those parents do want a broader school experience.

Around here village schools can get overwhelmed with send dc with no money. The schools can really struggle. Falling rolls mean less money. That’s why classes are being amalgamated and teachers on this thread don’t seem to like the idea.

Where we have villages and village schools, parents have no choice. I get that. There are issues though and it’s daft to pretend all small schools are rich and offer everything. If I have choice I would go bigger but agree 600 might feel daunting. If it’s a great welcoming school with very well developed integration policies and knowledge, they will be well versed in settling in shy dc. Overall the school will have more expertise.

Lastly - I’m entitled to my views. Others who cheerlead for small schools are entitled to theirs without being personal. But thinking all small schools are havens of excellence is very misleading - as it would be to say all larger schools are beacons of excellence too.

Thanks again for the help and sharing your experiences everyone.

I’m not at all worried about DD not being pushed academically- if I had my way all children would only learn by play until they are 7 or 8 - and tbh even after that would only learn enough by sitting there writing or reading sometimes so that senior school wouldn’t be a total shock (which is the age I believe real academic work should begin).

If I could afford a Steiner type school which seems to share my principles or one of the private Forest School primaries (where the vast majority of the “learning” is done outside in nature), then that is where I’d choose for DD to go in a dream world.

My worry is actually the other way around - that reception kids at this school could be pushed to try to do some of the more “academic”/sitting down quietly work Year 2 might be doing because of the nature of a mixed class. But hopefully not as the school do seem pretty relaxed - and one of the reasons I’m so drawn to it (despite the mixed class) is that as well as being the closest, it has the best forest school/outdoor facilities in the area.

But yes, falling numbers are a worry and the lack of resources is something to consider. I know they do try to prioritise trips, sports events and concerts with other schools etc, but obviously they aren’t going to be able to have near the same range of activities a bigger school could.

However judging by the council data even the bigger schools here are struggling with pupil numbers- the local birth rate is dropping year on year. I don’t think this closest school will shut as there are a couple of 30/40 pupil schools that are more in danger- but I can certainly imagine they might eventually have to mix Yr3/4/5/6 too if nothing changes. Definitely something to think about, thank you.

Mine all went to our very local tiny village school. The mixed year groups were quite haphazard and based on numbers so seemed a bit mad at times.

They all had a great time!

When they were younger I loved that they go to take part in play based stuff for a lot longer and as they got older it was a real benefit that they could go for extra stretch with the older ones in class. There were huge benefits to the class dynamics changing each year (as opposed to being in a 1 form year group staying the same the whole way through) and it meant that mine have always had friends across the school, enjoyed playing and taking responsibility for those much younger and when they move in to high school they're not scared of the older ones on the bus or at school break times.

Mine have thrived academically and most good teachers are used to teaching across a wide range of ability, even in a chronological year group.

The biggest factor in our well being has been being able to walk to school and I would encourage everyone to look for the easiest start and end to their day if possible.

@AnneMarieW As you believe that the very bright should not learn to read before they are 8 (the brightest read at home before they set foot in a school) then good luck. Play all the way!

Children in YrR do not need to do huge amounts of sat down work. When they say learning through play, as you know working in education that means even brighter students too. Play can be as simple as numbers in the sand that some DC are only just recognising to bright DC who are confident adding the numbers. They should be learning to write using the specific muscles through fine motor games etc not sitting writing.

I went to a primary school lile this years ago in the 90s it doesn't work

DD was in a mixed class in a Welsh primary, although hers was 18 pupils over 4 years, so smaller class but wider age range. As a shy child, it actually worked really well for her... She got 'mothered' by a couple of the Y2 girls and that really helped develop her confidence.

Academically, I don't think it had any negative effect... They learnt through play mostly, and for the more 'academic' bits had levels and could choose which one they wanted to work to... DD is quite academic and it meant she could level herself up without any issues.

The class also had an extra TA due to the age range so all the kids had a lot of 1-to-1 attention.

My children had this experience. Yes there were years where they had to say goodbye to classmates who were not going to be in the same class next year. Overall though it meant that they had friendships across a 3 year age span which has brought other benefits.
in academic terms, the school did really well at accommodating the huge range of abilities in the class. My son has just done GCSEs and his classmates from his primary have demonstrated that they have not lost any advantage. Possibly the opposite.

I agree that team sports was limited. they did well at 7 a side type things but that’s because almost all kids did sport through clubs outside of school. Which again brings benefits.
Eisteddfod and cultural stuff- incredible success! And because of the small numbers, they get to participate far more and far younger.

short version. It can be a wonderful experience if the head, leadership, teachers and teaching assistants are as fabulous as our small school.

I agree.

There is absolutely no evidence at our local high school that the children from the small mixed class village primaries do less well at GCSE than the large flashy feeder primary pupils. Pretty much sure it's the opposite especially proportionally.

My DC have been in top sets throughout high school, represented the school at multiple sports etc, despite their humble primary experiences.

I'd be really interested to know of anyone actually does write up any longitudinal studies around this as there are always posters on MN who are sure mixed year classes and small schools are in some way detrimental but it definitely hasn't been borne out in GCSE results here.

In what way?

Seems quite a sweeping statement without more detail?

This, thank you ❤️

DD at 3 is already ahead educationally- she reads (learning phonics), knows her numbers up to 100, does very basic adding and subtraction etc. But we do it at home by doing stuff like writing words and numbers in the sand or mud with sticks, chalking on the ground, reading together in bed before she falls asleep, adding or taking away Lego blocks while building huts for her toys in the garden etc. But you crack on thinking kids can’t mostly learn through play and have to do it sitting at a desk before they are ready @TizerorFizz

They seem to split the class but with one teacher so we would be doing different work to the older ones and the teacher was basically running 2 lessons at the exact same time it was just confusing and chaotic we mainly did just lots of worksheets with very little help and attention as obviously one person can't teach 2 different lessons at the exact same time.

Tbh be far that was 30 odd years ago. Thousands of pupils have & continue to go through mixed class schools & come out the other side. Our school has 2 TAs plus the teacher so in KS 1 each year group can be split between the three qualified adults in the room.

Thanks again everyone, especially those who have shared their experiences of how well (or not) a mix of 3 years together would work.

I didn’t mean to start a small school vs big school debate, as I went to a tiny village school myself (less than 100 pupils) and all the classes were mixed of 2 year groups. I liked it, and it didn’t do me any harm academically at least (good GCSEs, A levels and degrees etc).

DD was never likely to go to the only big school as I think 600 other kids would be too much for her at this stage (I’m sure it’s brilliant preparation at key stage 2 for the 1000 + pupil senior schools though 😀). All the other village schools are small like our local one. It’s just whether it is worth the longer school run, losing the nice forest school area/ relaxed atmosphere etc of her current school in order to send her to another village school that doesn’t mix reception with multiple older years.

That is the part I have no experience of, neither do any of the other teachers in my family (and to be honest neither has the school or the other parents there as they have only just started doing it 🤣). All the other village schools still just seem to have reception mixed with nursery only. So it’s been really helpful to get the views of people for whom a mixed reception/yr1/yr2 class isn’t a new thing ❤️ I’m going to try to find out exactly how many TA’s are likely to be in the class with the teacher next year to try to help make my decision.

It sounds like you're overthinking this a bit, kindly.

If you know and like the school, it's an easy commute, she already has friends, it has great stuff like a forest school etc then ime it is very unlikely that the potential perceived benefits of a different class structure is going to outweigh the upheaval of getting used to somewhere new, alongside a longer journey and faffier commute.

You could always keep moving schools for some slight improvement or tweak tbh, nothing will be perfect. But a school you like and know already is a big win, especially when it's a close and non stressful commute.

All our KS2 children swim every year from Y3-6. They do numerous sports events - far more than when I taught at a two form entry. They do whole class instrument lessons for 2 years and we have peri teachers coming in. There are downsides to small schools but all of the above - in a school with a mixed R/1/2 class - is much more than was on offer when I worked at a bigger school. Our school is also completely financially stable despite falling numbers.

I've taught R/1/2 and the receptions were quite separate from the KS1s. They weren't sitting down doing the same lessons and it was a very nurturing environment. Were it not for the limited friendship opportunities, I'd have sent my own child.

Yes exactly the stuff you are doing 👏 👍 is definitely the way to go!

Wales has more of a Learning through play curriculum up to Y2 anyway, they are likely merging as they can’t afford to pay 3 teacher but 2 teachers and a hlta/Ta’s will work out cheaper.
I imagine the continuous provision will remain as it should be in reception but that their will be groups taken to the side for maths/phonics etc according to their age/ability.
Tbh I think it would hugely benefit the older children as lots of them are not ready for more formal learning and if they’re happier they are more likely to engage positively with the younger ones, I also feel like when younger children are able to mix well with older children it really improves their confidence (and is really positive when they enter secondary school and aren’t worried about age hierarchy)

Are you able to go and visit the schools Rec/1/2 class before you make the application? If they have low numbers I would say they are probably quite open to visitors to encourage

The whole of foundation phase (nursery to year 2) is a play based environment in wales. So it makes no difference if the children ‘grow out of learning through play’ (which is incredibly unusual) because they would be in a play based curriculum up to and including year 2 anyway. They do their work in focus groups not as whole class (apart from PE) in foundation phase. It adopts a ‘stage not age’ ethos.

I don’t actually think it would be much of an issue in foundation phase, OP but would be more concerned going up the school that it would be tricky to plan whole class provision for years 3-6 if they ended up with one ks2 class. You also have the issue of limited friendship groups and fewer extra curricular clubs which would probably be why I would choose a bigger school.