Embedding times tables

[TimesTablesConumdrum]

DD, age 8, year 4, state school.

She passed her year 3 tables but doesn’t seem to know them despite this. Even easy ones.

We’re struggling to embed her times tables. How do others do it? Currently we have a small white board and write out various tables each night for her to complete the next day.

School has times table rock stars but I find she just messes about on this so we don’t do it often. We have an old fashioned book with them written out but she refuses to recite them parrot style.

She says she enjoys maths generally but I want to get on top of this. Thank you for suggestions.

We had a ‘times table rock’ CD in the car that went on for short journeys.

it did my head in but both dc learnt their tables from that!

Might try that! Thanks

When I taught Year 4, KoolKids times table videos on YouTube were useful. The online game Hit the button and the website timetables.co.uk are also helpful

I agree with this. Singing the times tables out loud so you remember them like song lyrics is the best way to do it.

We used tt rockstars which repetitive as anything but gets it in them.

For a different approach, I’ve had huge success playing games with these cards: https://www.funkeymaths.com/cards. The design is incredibly clever and there are loads of games you can play with them. UNO is always a favourite- children learn the relationship between products and factors without realising it.

The way I explained it to my children is they are like a song that you just know the words to. Classic example if I sing Twinkle Twinkle you know the next line is little star. This is the same for times tables, it is learning that four times four is sixteen. Lots of children spend time trying to work it out each time but it is just words that follow each other really.

I did flash cards but that is what worked with my children, so first of all in order, then random. But if they didn't know one it wouldn't go to the back of the deck, it was placed behind the next one, so 4x4, no idea, 2x4, 4x4, 8x4, 4x4, to put it into their memory.

We also played games with them, cards on the floor jump or hop to the answer to 5x4. Of course TT Rock Stars helped but that came out in 2010 so my eldest child was already 7. Although Kool Kidz Times Tables on Youtube is annoying, it is used in schools and as *Cerulean *says children really love it.

Mc Grammar on YouTube is a hit with my class, there’s another one for 4s they love, can’t think of its bloody name, skip count in 4s, number rock maybe? And loads of cover songs too. Our current one is Green, Green Grass for 3s.

my ds1 really struggled with learning times tables and I am pretty rubbish at remembering them. However my ds1 is studying for a maths degree and achieved an A* in both maths and further maths A levels. Whilst it is good to learn them for speed what my ds1 has is a good understanding of how maths works and how to work new stuff out from what he already knows.

Times tables rockstars site. My son is an absolute ninja with TT now and it made it fun and competitive in a positive way. School initiative for us but believe you can register as a private user.

We are having issues too. Mainly it's that although she can eventually work them out in her head (and therefore thinks she "knows" them), she doesn't know them fast enough for the sub-6 seconds test. I've no idea how to go about this as every day it's a battle. We're ploughing on with TT Rockstars and I've bought some flashcards.

@Tintarella exactly this. With time, she can work them out. But it’s the instant recall she needs. I will definitely use some of these ideas. Unfortunately she doesn’t have the quick brain and recall of her dad and older siblings, but my slower one 😞

I think you've dismissed ttrockstars too quickly.

Regular plays on it should make her quicker when answering the questions. You've just got to stop her from messing around in it.

There are different modes.

Garage is best for learning them and for speed. And then a mo thyl sound check you can check how fast she is and compare her time for the month.

But ttrockstars would be my advice.

The problem with TT Rockstars is that the children who are good at it enjoy it and spend more time on there, so they get better at it. The ones who don't yet have quick recall don't enjoy it and so don't want to spend time on it, so it becomes a battle and they don't improve. It doesn't work for all pupils.

There's a lot more to being good at maths than quick fact recall. Yes - knowing facts does make a lot of maths easier, but making links, spotting connections and being able to explain thinking are far more important. Sadly, the flawed y4 MTC has completely messed up our approach to teaching and learning times tables (it doesn't check the link with division, for example, which is equally important). And research published last autumn on the first cohort of pupils to do the MTC in year 4 and then year 6 SATs showed absolutely no correlation whatsoever between the two sets of data.

We had a CD in the car but also practised them in motion. So if this weeks table was 3x then on Monday she'd march up and down the stairs reciting the first 3 or 4 and then add on one or two every day so we had got to 12 by the end of the week. Practiced walking to the bus stop etc etc - I found that adding movement helped her learn them.

Also bath crayons and do sums on the bathroom tiles (also worked for spellings).

The numberblocks songs/ videos were very good for ds2. I also bought the magazines numberblocks from Morrisons. It had small blocks inside them. It got him excited and interested.

I think actually visualising and holding the blocks helped my him massively. Those catchy songs are also well made.

Agree on bath crayons being a fun way to help my kids do spellings and maths. Plus using time in the car for times tables songs. Audible also has a good range of songs that are fun.

I’d like to second the Numberblocks tables songs. We tried a different CD but the songs were too similar to be truly memorable. The Numberblocks ones are each in a different musical genre. You can listen to the album on Apple Music etc, and watch the videos too which helps - because then when you listen in the car, you are remembering the video. We did it all summer after my son finished Y4 really down about tables and Maths in general; he now tells me he’s a “Maths nerd”! I don’t know how long that will last but the confidence is really helping. TT Rock Stars just made him stressed. It doesn’t work for everybody.

I know you said she doesn't want to recite them parrot-style, but repetition really is the key to quick recall for most kids and I agree with PP that movement and rhythm are very helpful. Do you walk to school together? Marching and chanting them in time to the beat of your march is more helpful than just "saying" them (THREE times SIX is EIGHTeen etc). When they're solid on the chanting you can start asking them quick-fire random ones - then it soon becomes apparent which ones they don't reliably know, and you can keep on asking those until familiarity means they can answer quickly. When you move on to the next table, keep asking a few from the previous one(s), concentrating on the ones they were less sure of so they keep consolidating and don't forget the earlier ones.

What do you mean by "messes about"? What can you do on TT Rockstars that isn't TT related?

It's good to keep trying but they just never stuck for me. I still work most of them out. I'm fast at working out problems and I did very well at maths in secondary school.

Changing the avatar and just doing the easy tables, 2, 5 and 10 for example. I’m giving it another go and make sure to sit with her. I might try the marching recitations as well. We do walk to school.

Can anyone reccomend an exact cd or songs please so I can search for them. We have tried a few YouTube videos but the songs have been a bit naff and don’t necessarily aid the recall

dd8 also struggles with times tables and TTRS - I feel she needs to recall them better to be able to enjoy TTRS

Ours was just from Home Bargains, about 15 years ago now though!

It was definitely naff, but it did the trick!

We used dead time to do little and often. So, we’d go though them in the car to activities or walking to school. Some of it is just boring rote learning and they do need to be quick by the end of year 4 for the test but I think you also need to make sure they actually get it as well. Eg getting the concept that 8x5 is double 4x5. I used to just throw questions at my y4 daughter - we never really did parrot style and if she didn’t know, I’d make her work it out to try and embed the meaning behind the maths or work out equivalents so 4x 10 is the same as 8x5. This is where doubling and being really solid with that skill can help. We would then really overlearn the trickier ones like 8x7.

This is really interesting re the lack of correlation. Personally I think our school went a bit one dimensional re table testing at the expense of more applied maths. For the ones that got it early, it’s pretty dull to just be doing tables all the time and for the ones who needed more help, it seemed like a pretty demoralising process to have tables tests every day.