DS 8 - learning partner does nothing!

[Zxynpo]

Hi all, seeking advice please
ds 8 has just started year 4. He is unhappy and upset about his learning partner, whom he says does nothing and routinely has his head on the desk whilst DS does all the work single-handedly.

ds is very bright and very much enjoys learning at school. Without bragging, he is one of the top performers in his class and has exceeded expectations in all reports

I have raised this with the school, who initially confirmed he would change partner but then said that they would talk to ds and ‘support both boys’. This doesn’t fill me with confidence. Any suggestions as to how to deal this? I dont think its fair that DS is not learning much whilst being with this partner (DS has told me that this partner I’d probably the most à academically weakest person in the class).

I understand that that is a frustration, but the OP is complaining about learning.

I mean, he will be learning that in group projects some people do the work and some people sit back and that is a good lesson for life! He will find exactly the same at secondary, uni and work too.

There is no entitlement apart from the fact that every child is entitled to learn. I don’t see how my son is doing that by being partnered with someone who refuses to engage, which is making ds very unhappy and frustrated (as someone who enjoys learning) a the expense of a child who refuses to work.

no wonder it’s a race to the bottom for most of this country. Hard work and intelligence are not recognised or nurtured any more.

I don't think he is going to be disadvantaged by having to do most of the work, if anything he will learn more. It's just a bit awkward when the teacher tells them to discuss their ideas with each other and one child refuses to engage.
I've worked in a lot of schools and even when children are academically on a level you often get one child just taking over and not allowing their partner to get a look in. I think swapping frequently would prevent problems.

Your DC probably doesn't need a partner to add to his own efforts as he can already do it on his own. I feel sorry for the other DC who is his partner as clearly he is learning or contributing nothing. Which DC do you think is learning in this partnership? Teachers should put DC of similar ability together so they collaboratively learn.

So he will get a different partner eventually then. For right now he's not got a great one, just as one day he might get an unenthusiastic colleague, or a boring parent-in-law, or a lazy teacher. Best to tell him that in life you don't always get what you want, and that includes the people you're with. No matter who you're saddled with, you need to be polite and put some work in. I'm sure he's doing that, and I'm sure you're telling him to be kind to his partner.

@VioletandDill agree re being polite to partner and kind but I don’t think they change partners more often than every few weeks and thats not great for a child to be unhappy and frustrated for so long. We adults can cope.

Surely that doesn’t mean he’s not learning, though? He’s probably learning more if he’s doing it alone.

lol at this. DS ‘expected to do their job for them’. He’s doing a shit job of it then, if his learning partner has his head on the desk.

currently your DS is learning:
how to explain a concept to someone else which consolidates his own learning
how to navigate different personalities
how to work independently
how the encourage someone else
and finally, how to have empathy for others (which he maybe isn’t getting at home judging by this thread)

they’ll swap about soon but creating learning partners with more able children has been a proven concept for decades.

Did you see my post? I teach Y4. Children are marked on their work individually and all need to show their learning individually. New learning comes from teacher input. Children might discuss ideas but they're not expected to learn new information or concepts from each other. What is the learning partner actually for?

@CountFucula the partner does nothing. It’s likely not fair to him to partner him with DS. My empathy is with both. It’s not fair to expect DS to learn nothing when the point of school is to learn.
@Sblank I don’t know what the point is of the learning partner concept. It wasn’t pushed in the sand way in year 3 (at least DS didn’t come home unhappy about it).

I don’t understand why you think he’s learning nothing? They learn from the teachers, not the other pupils.

@NoisyLittleOtter this is whst my DS says and tbf what is the point of the exercise if they only learn from the tezcher? Might as well send him out to play with friends

I don't think you understand the concept of a learning partner.

A small amount of work in school will be partner work. Most of it is individual. Of course your son is doing 100% of his individual work.

When it comes to partner work, there will be a main learning intention linked to a curriculum area, and a supplementary learning intention linked to working with others.

From how your son is speaking about a child who clearly finds learning really hard (imagine how difficult maths is for a child who thinks they might be in a history lesson), he clearly has work to do on developing empathy. Remind him that not all children learn as easily as he does, and he is a great person for supporting his learning partner.

Eh? He wouldn’t be learning anything at all if he was out playing with friends. What do you expect 8 year olds to be learning from their peers, in reality?
I think you’re totally catastrophising here. I have 2 very quiet, academic and hard working DDs. Over their primary years they were sat next to a variety of ‘challenging’ students. I wasn’t particularly fond of it some of the time, but it was only ever for shortish periods (sometimes a few weeks, sometimes a half term) before the classes were moved around, and actually I think it taught them to be tolerant and inclusive.

Ha it'll probably only get worse as he gets older! At uni he might have to do a group project where his mark is affected if some group members do nothing. It's ridiculous! When uni students often really struggle with group work because some students just aren't interested how are 8 year olds ever supposed to manage? It's just not fair IMO.

Oh yes a child teaching another child something may be really wonderful and potentially teach so many skills to both, better knowledge retention, better understanding, better communication skills, empathy - wonderful concept! But in reality I don't know where they found these children. Generally IME one kid completely dominates and bosses the other, or all the really well behaved girls are stuck with the difficult boys, or the bright kid is very able academically but has poor communication skills and can't understand why the other kid doesn't get it, or one kid is really disinterested and doesn't want to listen and learn, or one kid doesn't want to share resources or one ends up doing everything. I think in an ideal world it would be lovely, or with a specially hand picked pair where one is from Yr 6 and one is Yr 3/4 - but in a class of 30 kids it's just not going to work for most of the kids IMO.

DS was very lucky at secondary and was generally given the choice to work in a group or alone - he chose to work alone every time. He now works really well with his work colleagues because he works somewhere where everyone is engaged and motivated. Not being forced to work in a group at school with kids that weren't interested or messed around or did nothing had no negative affects at all.

It sounds like you need to ask for clarification of what the learning partner system is for and how it works.

DD is in yr4, they all do individual work, they can ask the person next to them for help, but they don't do joint work unless it's something like 'build a tower out of straws and marshmallows'.

I'd ask DS if he's doing his learning partners work for him / doing joint work entirely on his own, or if he is just doing his own while his partner ignores his. What exactly is his frustration and how is it affecting him, try and establish if it's just 'Fred doesn't do his work and it's annoying'

It might be that DS needs a reassurance from the teacher that he's not expected to make his learning partner do the work, if that's what he's feeling pressure to do.

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut

Your last point is actually really valid.

Some children feel like they are expected to ensure others complete their work/understand the task. If OP's son is one of these, he needs to be told explicitly that he is not responsible.

They don’t learn new input from learning partners. Otherwise eight-year-olds would need to be qualified teachers…
as has been repeatedly explained : learning partners are used to consolidate the learning because in order to really understand something you have to be able to explain it clearly to somebody else. Your DS is getting that..

Agree with this: It might be that DS needs a reassurance from the teacher that he's not expected to make his learning partner do the work, if that's what he's feeling pressure to do.

My dd was also the brightest in the class, but also had ASD. Being paired with a student who refused to work or who needed tutoring was such a problem that we had to have it strictly forbidden in her education plan.

I would start by talking to the teacher. Your son should not be expected to drag another student along. It’s one thing for students to reinforce concepts to themselves explaining them to others. That is the argument that you will be given to support this arrangement. That system only works when the other student wants to participate. It should also not result in your student doing more work which is often the case.

Yes - I was one of those children!

(not helped by the teacher that gave me counters to put in a pot if my partner misbehaved! 🙄)

Talk to the teacher and then with your DS. The topic should be what DS should do if his partner isn't engaging in the work, not a complaint about the partner being unsuitable.

The "DS isn't learning anything" is not a reasonable argument here - this student doesn't sound actively disruptive, learning partners don't replace teachers and DS is doing the assignments. And as others have pointed out, opportunities to explain knowledge to someone else is often a valuable learning tool. But it sounds like DS is frustrated not knowing how to handle the situation and worried about negative impacts if he doesn't do it right, so talk to the teacher about reasonable expectations. Can he give the teacher a signal to get them to intervene with his partner? Can he just go about the assignment on his own? Does DS need reassurance that his mark isn't dependent on his partner?

My dd2 was always given the naughty boys to partner as she always toed the line. In high school given a Polish boy to teach him to read English. She qualified as a primary teacher last year! My ds2 is in the final year at uni and having to work as a team still stresses him out, he is very organised and academic and ends up doing it all himself as the other don't show up for meetings or engage or complete the work to a high standard. He wants a first degree so cannot afford to let his marks slip, the others benefit from his work as they are all given the same mark. His leadership has been noted and he has been offered a graduate job next summer. So although we are all peed off about similar stuff to you the outcomes for mine have been positive.

I hate the way they use learning partners in my DS class as they use my studious well behaved child as crowd control. They swap each half term and last year he had 6 disruptive children as learning partners. It has taught him some resilience as he has learnt to stand up for himself and not take any shift from them however it has contributed to his hatred of school and with the same pattern starting this year I am considering moving him to a different school.

Those that say it teaches you how to work with difficult characters which is useful for the work place...yes to a certain extent but I have near experienced colleagues physically fighting, running around with chairs on their head and kicking chairs out from underneath people as they are about to sit down. All things my DS has experienced with learning partners.

I mean that is group work at all levels of education. Someone generally does bugger all and there is always someone who carries. It is the lesser of two evils to be with someone who can’t be arsed versus someone who is actively disruptive. My daughter was partnered disproportionally with disruptive boys. I’m not sure that she ever got to go with her friends.