Would I be creating more problems for DS by teaching him old-fashioned column addition and subtraction?

[Buda]

DS is struggling with maths (age 6 - Yr 2) and although we are working on it and have signed him for for Maths Whizz etc. I wondered if I were to teach him the old fashioned way of adding 2 digit numbers and then obv 3 digit etc.

The current way of adding the tens and then the units seems more complicated to me.

From ehat I knoew of the current education system, it allows you to find or choose any method that works for that particular child and use that. So you shouldn't cause any problems by teaxhing him a method that works for him.

Generally with numeracy it doesn't hurt to present a range of working things out and let them choose which one works for them. It is worth a try.

Yay!

I would stick with the school's method for a while longer until he gets it. While it can seem a bit odd, it's really good for laying the groundwork for further work and good understanding.

It might help to use blocks, pasta or something similar, making groups of numbers and dividing them into tens and units.

He will be taught the column method but at a much later point.

I have shown DD (6y, Y1) how to do basic addition using U, T, H, Th columns. Not moved onto carrying r subtraction yet. She picked it up really quickly. It was the way I was taught and it makes sense.

I think her school still teaches this way any way as I help out in the Y3 class and they were recently doing carrying over in columns.

I don't actually know what other way there is - this was how I wads taught and she hasn't brought home anything else yet.

Dd's school have emphasised to us a need to do it their way for now (they use number lines).

Apparantly they need to get a really sound grasp of what the numbers mean before you start with different methods of doing things. And yes, they often find other methods easier but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are understanding it.

I am constantly battling with dh because he wants to use the column method with dd. I can see his point though because dd does find column method easier, however, i don't want to confuse her further in class (she struggles with numeracy) by having her do things differently to what the teacher is teaching, if that makes sense.

According to dd's numeracy co-ordinator, children begin to pick and choose which methods they prefer in Y4.

Well I tried to show him yesterday and he told me he didn't want to do "olden ways"!!! Cheeky monster!

My advice is to stick to the way they do it at school for the moment. Column addition is much easier but although they can get an answer they don't understand why they are doing it.For example I was taught that in subtraction if you borrow one you have to pay it back but this is not actually what you are doing. Probably by year 4 your DS will choose a column method but at the moment it will be confusing and he won't make the connections with the present method.At least if you split the units from the tens you can see where they come from.

DS(both of them) strugle with the way maths are taught at this school.
They are used to the way
123
+456

and when DH showed Ds2 that way, he got a message home from the teacher telling him not to do that, it was wrong and marking all DS2s maths as wrong, even though he had the correct answer

We had problems with this, but you should stick to the school method to avoid confusing them. In Y4, dd was taught columns, but before that I asked the teacher to show me how they did it, and she gave me some printed sheets which helped me to help dd. Cd you do this?

In the early stages of Maths the way that it is worked out is more important than the answer. If you have 123
+456
the DC is adding 2 and 5 without realising that it is 20 and 50. This is further complicated when they add the tens column of 40 and 60 and don't realise that they have made 100.

Sorry I thought I had the numbers in a column.

morethanmum - I know how to do it they way they do it at school but it seems overly complicated to me really.

I tried showing him but he is not interested so I will leave it the way they teach at school.

Column addition is a short cut that makes no mathematical sense.

The only way to learn what is behind addition and subtraction is to use the school's method.

IMO it's harder in the short term but easier in the long run.

I taught dd adding and subtracting in columns with regrouping and she was quite thankful for it because she was lost with school maths. She still hates maths but at least she has some concept of how to tackle those kind of sums and she was quite relieved about that

I've noticed that she sometimes also uses concepts taught at school to find solutions so she is doing a bit of both. She cannot do things like 358 - 297 in her head though, it has to be down on paper and she needs to cross out where she regroups etc

I have found she struggles with anything they are tuaght in maths though so think it is a general problem she has. (Maths is beyond her grasp and doesn't interest her at all) not just the way they teach it nowadays.

I totally agree, Buda. I thought it was ridiculous (esp as have financial background) but she was v stressed about doing it like they do at school. Plus, they need to follow the rest of the teaching so they 'get' it.

358 - 297 would be easy to do mentally if she follwed the schools way of teaching. 297 +3 = 300 so add another 58 to the 3. This is one of the reasons that it is not a good idea to go straight into column subtraction.

That doesn't work for her Abbey she was never able to do more than single digit sums in her head. She needs to write it down

Could she write them down with a number line? That will be the way she has been taught.

I also explain to DD what the numbers mean, using columns. So she now understands place value and that 23 is made up of 2 tens and 3 units. She had been able to work out hundreds and thousands using the same method too. And she seems to understand it.

But then I haven't seen DD's school teaching her any other methods yet, so we will have to see.

they don't do number lines here in Germany Abbey. Like Hula's dc they learn place value, so many ones, so many tens, so many hundreds etc

Oh, she does use number lines though, at school too. I also showed her how to use an abacus.

Later in her school have seen them using the multi base blacks as well.

maybe I'm sounding very tense about it this morning sorry if I am. Dd is off school and I sat her down with this box of sums column going down minus the row of numbers going across and it was just an almighty STRESS the whole thing. Do you get those to do in the UK, fill in a kind of grid?

I don't know what to advise,not knowing anything about the German system because it could end up being more confusing.
The number line is very simple to count on. You draw a line with 279 on one end and 358 on the other and imagine that a frog is jumping along it in useful jumps! You agree that it is sensible to get to 300 so you draw a small curved line above, mark 300 on the line and +3 above your curved line. They you see that it can take one huge leap of 58 to get to the end of the line and draw it in and add together your 2 jumps.If they don't get it I physically jump which they find very funny, especially when I do the big jumps.

my dd would love to have a teacher doing frog jumps round the classroom Abbey