London 4+ Tutoring help

[JaneMirage]

Hi,

I am wondering how many parents did not use external tutors for 4+ and what offers did you get? Is it possible to get into a competitive academic schools without formal tutoring but just nursery and parents-led activities?

thank you!

I’ve genuinely never heard of anyone using them for the Dulwich schools. 7+ and 11+ yes, but I think 4+ is rare.

@JaneMirage I think it depends on which schools you are applying to. Generally, you shouldn't need to, but every child is different and at the end of the day your child will need to stand out from the crowd.
They may naturally have the things the schools are looking for including knowledge of phonics, numbers, social skills, fine motor skills etc. Some parents like to give their child a boost by working on these things themselves or using a tutor. It is more common than you think because no one really talks about it!
My son went for the 4+ the autumn before last and I am Head of PP, so I know what things are being assessed, so yes, I did prepare him. He came in the top 5, but as I said, every child is different, and a lot will not be near the top 20% that will get an offer of a place or waiting list place.

4+ children shouldn’t need tutoring. They need to be able to write their name, do some colouring (within the lines), count a bit, recognise letters etc. All the things a good nursery/ pre-reception teaches. The main thing is that they have to be prepared to go into the assessment without an adult with them. At one much sought after school, if the child refuses to go with the teacher that is the end of the assessment. They are looking for imagination and confidence. GD was asked to make some food out of play dough and talk about it. She said the pizza ‘would inflate the teacher and she would fly high in the sky’. She was accepted.

My g-nephew had to count and sort small items (amongst other tasks) and apparently was the only child who tidied up at the end of the session! 😂

Thank you all for the advice!

@MyTwoDads what do you mean by top 5? He was the best performing in the assessments or top 5 schools.

I am worried because I have seen only one offer to Highgate to a child who did not tutor externally, but I have the feeling that is an exception. I even heard that “all girls” in St. Christopher’s were tutored!

I cannot believe that parents who have children applying to Highgate, Habs, NLCS, South Hampstead Girls going to the second round without seeking an extra “boost” from external tutors.

is it too late?

Thank you so much for the great advice 🙏

I live in this area, but have boys rather than girls, so as well as Highgate its schools like The Hall, UCS, Arnold House, etc, that the boys aim for. Same thing as the girls schools you name though.

I agree with PP that people don’t tutor for 4+, BUT they do send their DC to nurseries that really focussing on prepping for 4+, eg Hampstead Hill, Broadhurst, Mulberry House.

My two DS got into “top” boys prep schools at 4+ and as far as I can tell it was because they went in happily when dropped off for the assessments, interacted well with the other kids and played collaboratively eg building a big Brio track, and would listen properly when read a story and then talk about it.

Things to work on at home include reading and writing their own name; fine motor skill things like threading beads and doing up and undoing buttons and zippers; being able to draw a picture of their family (stick figures are fine but teach them to include fingers, toes, noses, ears and eyebrows in the drawings); doing simple jigsaws; talking about the stories you read then (eg which character do you like best and why?, what do you think will happen next?); using scissors; saying please and thank you and a polite hello and goodbye while looking the adult in the eye.

Good luck!

Also, take some comfort from the demographic shift. The peak year, in this part of London anyway, was about 2012 or 2013, and between falling birth rates, Brexit, and VAT and fees going up generally, my understanding is that these schools with used to have at least 5 or more kids applying for every space available now have only 2 to 3.

(meaning that it was the children born in 2012/13 who were the peak year when they applied to start at 4+ in 2017)

@SummerInSun this is also very helpful!

Like most of the mums, I cannot help worrying… I am trying to do the calculations and some sources claim that some schools acceptance rate is 10%. When I go to the feeders nurseries websites (the ones above and Clowns) I still see children with offers from less academic schools….

@JaneMirage it's not too late. I'm happy for you to DM me and I'll give you some pointers on what to work on.

Also, as I mentioned it will depend on the school you're applying to. For example, Westminster Under are opening a new Pre-Prep next September (2026) and 4+ is this autumn for entry. They told me they are close to their 500 applicants limit - all for 32 places! Highgate are still having around 400 applicants and SHHS is around 300-350. All for 30-40 places! It must take up so much of their time assessing for only a small number of offers. I guess it's a way for them to make money with the application fees (WUS is £300!).

Schools always say don't tutor, I did when I was Head of PP. If only everyone followed that advice it would be a level playing field. The reality is a lot of people do because they want to give their child the edge on the other candidates.

we didn’t do any external tutoring and got offer from Habs. However we did go to a nursery that prep children for assessments.

Thank you @hertsmumma and congrats!

I really hope that’s enough because tutoring my moody daughter seems so pushy 😭 I almost feel it can be counterproductive…

My dd received all her offers for the schools we applied for a couple of years back - NLCS, St C and SHHS (we didn’t apply for Habs or Highgate) and no we didn’t have a tutor. We did stuff at home with her - there is no need to a tutor at 4+.

We know a couple of people who got tutored for 4+ and didn’t receive offers (one being a sibling at NLCS also). It’s not necessary and in fact could be detrimental not just for the assessment itself but also if they do happen to get in, they may not be able to keep up (a girl in DD’s class is like this)

Tutoring for 4+ is very different to tutoring for 7+ or 11+

i think of it as more just a bit more practice if what you would be doing at home

its not a silver bullet though and if you do it make sure it is child led and fun and the tutor is kind and warm rather than hot housing that kills their joy of learning at such an early stage

but I think the real differentiator is less ability to cut in a straight line and thread some beads but more how the child thinks, perseveres, shows early problem solving skills and demonstrates their imagination

it’s anecdotally becoming marginally less competitive than 5-6 years ago but more at the offer stage and parents reluctantly turning down offers than necessarily the number of applicants.

@MyTwoDads, do you mind if I drop you a pm as well? Thanks!

@GloMum sure, no problem.

@FlakyShark I totally agree with what you're saying. The applications peak was just before covid for my school then came down a bit. Now this will be the first time schools are applying knowing VAT is on the fees, and how much the schools have decided to pass on. Interesting to see how that affects applications for some schools.
It is more than just the regular concepts such as number, letter sounds, fine motor skills etc. I began to include an open-ended question section to my 4+ assessments to try and see how imaginative and creative the children were. It was interesting to track the progress of the high flyers in this section as they moved through the school.

We got offers from all the schools we applied for, including Habs. Never did any tutoring and DS goes to a play based nursery. Someone else I know going to Habs never did tutoring either. I’ve never heard anyone tutor a 3/4 year old.

@Ballardz that's great news but not everyone has children that are able to tick all the boxes from the schools you applied to.

The reality is that many more people do tutor, whether it's parents or a professional, and they don't make it public knowledge because they don't want to give anyone else a step up against their own child. It definitely is a cut throat world but once you're in - you're in!

Children learn at different rates and some pick up things much quicker than others, so it is difficult to resist tutoring if you don't know how well your child will do when they're in the assessment room, or you're not sure exactly the content of the assessments. Parent's will do what they have to to give their child a boost and there's nothing wrong with that. To each their own! 😎

I don’t think that many people tutor at 4+ to be honest. If your child isn’t a fast learner and able to keep up in a fast pace environment like NLCS, Habs etc then it just makes it difficult for the kid in the long run.

I don’t agree with “once you’re in your in”!
To keep up, tutoring continues for some.
I have seen this first hand and poor kid has mental problems from not being good enough yet their parents don’t care cos she is “in”. Crazy right but there are a lot of competitive mums and dads where simply being a student isn’t good enough - their kid needs to be the top student.

The school can ask you to leave if you can’t keep up so a vicious cycle of tutoring

Can anyone (ie any of the tutors on this thread) advise on how to encourage a 3 year old to draw actual pictures and what are schools looking for here - detail? Pencil grip?

@KimchiLaLa don't get too caught up on the drawing aspect as it's only a small part of the assessment. Some suggestions for what to work on are:

Encourage lots of mark making and get them to talk about what they are drawing.

A crash course between now and the assessment would be to focus on one thing to draw e.g. a flower or family!

Model how to hold a pencil correctly, and ensure the pencils/pens/crayons are not too thin at this stage.

Schools will be looking for correct pencil grip and age appropriate drawing. It may just be scribbles to us, but if they said it was a dinosaur climbing a mountain or their house - that is important too because their are putting meaning to the marks they make.

Display their pictures for friends and family to look at. It will give them a sense of pride about their creations and hopefully encourage them to do more (our dining room is like and art gallery lol).

Practising some fine motor activities well help with pencil grip too. I've written a couple of posts on FMS and how to teach your toddler to write their name. Send me a DM and I'll reply.

@MyTwoDads any chance I could have the info about toddlers writing their name too? Thanks so much!

Of course, I'll send you a DM with the link. 😎