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Schools in revolt over under-5s curriculum

79 replies

mrz · 26/05/2008 10:55

The ISC has come out against the imposition of the EYFS in England www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article4004420.ece
openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/open-eye-petition/

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Anna8888 · 26/05/2008 17:48

LOL KatyMac on the right/wrong and why....

What idiot wrote that, I wonder... it does somewhat undermine my good faith in the whole exercise.

littlerach · 26/05/2008 17:57

aah, mrz, I was loking at it form a preschool point of view, sorry, not a tecaher's.
I imagine it will be a lot of work for teachers, and rather difficult ot implement.
The staff at dd2's preschool seem unfazed by it, so was simply going by their reactions.

mrz · 26/05/2008 18:00

For a class of 30 it would mean doing one observation every 10.8 minutes...

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KatyMac · 26/05/2008 18:07

not possible - at least not if they want any teaching done

Is that assuming 1 a week per child?

KatyMac · 26/05/2008 18:09

How about by the end of the Early Years stage they should "Have an understanding of right and wrong and why" - still a bit broad imo

mrz · 26/05/2008 18:12

www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2624413&path=/early+years/&threadPage=1
www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2623502&path=/early+years/&threadPage=1&message Page=3
www.foundation-stage.info/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13379&view=findpost&p=133704

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ecoworrier · 26/05/2008 18:45

I agree with those who say the reaction is being over-hyped in many ways. I can't speak for schools and childminders (although my relative who is a reception teacher isn't at all bothered or stressed by the requirements), but I work in a playgroup and no-one thinks it's a huge deal at all.

There really will be little change, and young children are not being forced or even expected to meet targets.

All those sorts of assessments are already being done, in a very informal way, without affecting the experience of the children in any way. All the staff keep records and observations on the children to whom they are key worker, but it doesn't mean 'constant' observation, or that staff aren't playing and interacting with children.

When I look back just at last week for example, I can think of several occasions when the children were mostly playing well and very happily occupied, so one member of staff would just take the chance to sit for 10 minutes or so and observe one or more of 'her' children. A bit of A4 paper is good enough to scribble the relevant notes - 'x used 'under' and 'over' in the right context', or 'y recognised some letters were the same as in her name' or 'n needed help to cut with scissors'.

It's the work of a few minutes, and in our playgroup staff will often scribble such notes for whatever children they happen to be playing/working with, and then pass on the notes to the relevant keyworker. It's just second nature to grab some paper and write down anything that helps us understand a particular child and make the playgroup activities more helpful (and fun!) for them.

Nothing threatening or alarming or interfering with play-based learning. I don't think it's perfect but neither do I think it's the huge deal a lot of people are making it out to be. I am ready to admit I'm wrong if it does turn out to be a disaster, so perhaps we should reconvene in a year's time and see if our pre-school children have been turned into stressed, over-tested victims who aren't allowed to play!

mrz · 26/05/2008 18:54

www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=12631
link to the table of changes to EYFS prior to it being implemented...

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mrz · 26/05/2008 19:00

KatyMac how about : "Understands that s/he can expect others to treat her or his needs, views, cultures and beliefs with respect." or "Takes into account the ideas of others." or "Considers the consequences of words and actions for self and others." or ...

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3andnomore · 26/05/2008 19:06

call e a complete ignorant, but WHY is that all necessary anyway...I turely don't get this whole obcession about it all...
surely the early years of a child should just help them develop social skills and make them use their imagination...the rest will all come in due time...

KatyMac · 26/05/2008 19:10

Again - these are things I struggle with as an adult - I like to think that I do them all - but I know I probably do only when I think about it

3andnomore · 26/05/2008 19:16

slightly off topic...but this link was recently posted...showing how it works in sweden
Such a different system!

mrz · 26/05/2008 19:18

3andnomore "surely the early years of a child should just help them develop social skills and make them use their imagination...the rest will all come in due time... " couldn't agree more which is why I believe parents should be free to make that choice.

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3andnomore · 26/05/2008 19:29

indeed

prettybird · 27/05/2008 08:56

Takver has made the point I was trying to make, but more succinclty.

If I wanted to send ds to a more formal environment, I ouwld have sent him to a more formal environment.

Then next thing is that they will be seningus as parents compulsory tick forms in order to confirm what "stages" our children are achieving!

Enid · 27/05/2008 08:57

oh I like this new initiative

dd3s nursery now has to spend time tlaking to her about pony riding as that is her 'special interest' (she is 2 btw)

ecoworrier · 27/05/2008 09:55

The environments will not be in any way more formal though. Our playgroup is extremely informal, and in fact many of the parents say they chose it precisely because we are very homely, loving and informal. We had a reception teacher visit us last week to meet some of the children who will be joining her in September, and the next day at school she told some of the parents (who already have children at that school) what a lovely atmosphere our playgroup has. The new framework won't change that one bit, so I really don't understand the comments about not wanting children to have formal environments.

Many of the pre-schools and nurseries round here are much more formal than us, but that has absolutely nothing to do with any framework, that's just down to the settings themselves. There is just so much scope to have an informal and relaxed setting.

That's not to say we don't do all the things we're supposed to do, or that the children don't learn, of course they do.

That's the point really. The children are still playing and having a whale of a time. They're still learning but they don't know it! They might be being assessed but they don't know it.

northernrefugee39 · 27/05/2008 10:05

3andnomore, the Swedish link was very interesting. I envy their system.
One of the things I think is a shame about all the ticking boxes and targets is the time it takes away from doing other more constructve and creative things with the kids. So much paperwork and watchful judgement is quite de humanising and demoralising.

One thing which worries me about the open eye campaign here
openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/open-letter/

Is that it is heavily weighted with Steiner school/waldorf/anthroposophical representatives( even melinda mesenger is there)Wynstones Steiner school seems to be very well represented, and maybe there are otheres who are within the Steiner movement who haven't actually mentioned it.
They have jumped squarely on this bandwagon. A good promotional move for their pseudo religious cult , anthroposophy, which the schools are based on.

3andnomore · 27/05/2008 10:21

I have thought about this a fair bit last night, as I went off to sleep....and I am honestly wondering why assesment and documentation of that is so important...
example from the Parent drop in I volunteer to help out...
some girls have some sort qualification to work with children and they will be doing observations and then I hear things like...oh so and so is using transportation ( I think that is what they called it)...what they meant is, oh so and so is "transporting" all the artwork glitter over to the waterplay ...now, I believe I am correct with thinking that that would be the kind of think that then would be documented within an observation....I mean...what is the point...all children will do that at one time, surely...it's a natural process...why does time need to be wasted by then writing it down?
Another example:
My son (3 almost 4 y. old now) at Nursery ( a lovely place) doing what he loves doing, which is laying on the floor playing with cars, mainly pushing them backwards and forwards (kinda what ya do with a car)..Nursery nurse, bless her, commenting oh he is using such and such skill (can't remember now)...I mean...it's kinda pointless...my child obviously is a genius ..or maybe just a ordinary little boy going through a certain developemental stage...

Why not just document observations that really are important...forinstance when it is noticed that a child really isn't doing something...
Maybe I am the only "NOT" to care, but well, I see what my Kids are doing, tey do normal things...that is all I need to know....

northern...which schools are pseudo religious cults?

mrz · 27/05/2008 10:27

Enid

"dd3s nursery now has to spend time tlaking to her about pony riding as that is her 'special interest' grin (she is 2 btw) "

If they weren't doing it before I would have questioned why. Good well qualified practitioners would not need to be told to talk to the children in their care.

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mrz · 27/05/2008 10:41

northernrefugee39 I can understand your concern re Steiner involvement having read your posts regarding your own experiences (I have to confess to being completely ignorant about Steiner) but if you check out the other people involved in the campaign there is also a very long list of highly respected people Margaret Edgington is the spokeswoman of the campaign and an Early Years consultant and Vice President of Early Education Penelope Leach author of books such as Your Baby & Child: From Birth to Age Five and Babyhood: Infant Development from Birth is also a signatory as is Sue Palmer author of Toxic Childhood all well respected by Early Years professionals.

3andnomore the "transporting" is called a schema and children engage in different types at different times as you say the staff had observed a child engaged in a transporting activity and had made a "mental" note which was shared with other members of staff and planned for accordingly doesn't need a mountain of paperwork does it?

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3andnomore · 27/05/2008 10:56

Well, lol, what that staff really meant was, that the child was not stopped doing something they shouldn't be doing...lol...i.e. throwing all the glitter into the waterplay.......i.e. the child was doing somehting "naughty"!
it hasn't change anything in our set up...as sadly that isn't really the option, we are doing with fascilities that aren't really that great, whilst waiting for teh childrencentre to be build and opened...

But, those observations, if done within an observation, would then be written down in the childs book....so, it would normally create work...I just don't see the benefit of it, really....!

prettybird · 27/05/2008 10:59

I think the point that 3andnomore was making was "does it matter waht fancy name you put to things". Wy should carers have to leanr these terms. There are plenty of good carers (or even parents! ) who have never been taught the terminology - doesn't make them anly less skilled!

I genuinley still don't see the point in imposing this compulsory framework to all forms of paid-for pre-school care.

It's not what I am looking for in child care. As a parent I can see if my child is happy and sociable and (in as much as he is a PFB) seems to be progressing normally. Who are these measurements and assessments supposed to be benefitting? What is the purpose of them? Measuring something doesn't change it - although it can be argued that the act of observation does change it .

GooseyLoosey · 27/05/2008 11:08

We do seem to have gone way too far towards targets and measureable criteria of "success" at a much too early age. If children leave primary school able to read and write and with basic numeracy skills, what more is needed? If schools were focused less on SATS and other enforced targets and assessment, perhaps they would be better able to identify children who need additional support.

I have no problem with a set of suggested targets for pre-school children where it is used only as a guide. I do not want my children to be measured against these targets. The EYFS can say all it likes that it takes into account the fact that children are unique. It might, but the people doing the observations cannot possibly in the real world

Enid · 27/05/2008 19:30

lol at the idea that I would question why dd3s nursery hadn't been discussing horseriding with her