School refusal: change schools?

[pinkcantaloupe]

My 5 year old has been struggling with school for the last year. I expected it when she first started and it got a bit better but the last two terms have been particularly difficult resulting in hysterical sobbing on drop off.

She has a small class of 16 with only 5 other girls in her class. I can’t rule out bullying as she has commented on the older kids pinching her at lunch times and calling her names.

We have the possibility of moving her to another school but I’m not sure if this will help. We had no issues when she went to nursery as it was a very nurturing; she was always happy to go into school, loved the teachers and had lots of friends. I have asked my daughter how she finds school and she says she’s scared of going in, doesn’t like X and Y in her class who push her and shout at her.

We had a meeting today with the teacher who felt it was separation anxiety causing the issue and to be more quick on drop offs and ignore her if she cries. They also suggested a sticker chart at school for every day she goes into school without crying. I’m not happy with these suggestions as they are not addressing the root cause, which I think is the class dynamic (no real friends) and also the older children. They also have happy face, thinking face and angry face which I think has also caused a lot of anxiety as she is petrified of going in the thinking face.

The teacher has suggested play dates with other kids to help her build friendships but sadly the other parents are not really interested (we haven’t been invited to a single birthday party as the parents will only invite one or two kids from the class to the party). The teacher has said my daughter is fine once she is in but I suspect she is actually masking when she is at school.

My point is, should I move my daughter? She moves to Y1 in September so will have a new teacher but it doesn’t address the fact it’s the same number of kids. We do like the school, the teachers have all been there for many years and the head is proactive. But there have been fights between parents at the school gate leading to teachers having to patrol the school gates and the head had to address a rumour that a child brought a knife into school.

The other school that has a space seems more nurturing, but they have had three new head teachers in the space of 3 years (one is still suspended) and lots of new teachers as a result. They’ve recently dropped to a good Ofsted rating from outstanding and the interim head was working from home when we viewed the school too. A friend has a friend who is a deputy head at another school had strongly recommended I stay away from the new school. I’ve contacted 5 other schools but they do not have any spaces. Our current school was not our first choice and we are 9th on the in-year waiting list for our first choice school.

We do lots of extra curricular activities outside of school so my daughter does have lots of friends who we see. The teacher thinks we might be doing too much which is making our daughter too tired for school and this is contributing to the school refusal in the morning.

My point is do I risk moving my daughter to another school with a larger class to give her the opportunity to make more friends and be settled at school? We didn’t get a great vibe when we viewed the school and felt our current one had a better feel, (although I’m not too happy with the teacher’s suggestions to get my daughter into school). It’s just the class is very small and with no real friends for my daughter to gel with.

Believe your teachers when they say she is fine once you’ve gone. It’s very, very common for children to cry when their parents leave them for a term or even year. Leaving quickly is key, don’t draw it out.

Interesting, I was going to say pretty much the opposite - ime "fine in school" means "they are quiet and compliant, and don't disrupt the class", no information about how happy, anxious, frozen in terror etc the child might be or whether they are actually learning anything....

Having a 10 boy / 6 girl ratio is certainly not ideal. Is there only one class in the grade? And, she is definitely being bullied. Being pinched and called names is textbook.

I would try to strategize with the teacher on how she can address these situations because that is her job and she should be observant, but of course, children are clever, and even the most observant teacher could miss things.

I know you have already met with the teacher, and she has given you some suggestions, but it doesn't appear that any of her suggestions address the problem kids and their behavior. When you do setup a meeting, come with ideas and try to request the meeting in a way that does not make the teacher feel on the defensive. You will get more buy-in and help that way, as teachers are come at from all directions, from all types of parents, administrators, etc., and not everyone seems to be calm and kind like yourself.

When you strategize with the teacher make sure to come up with ideas that don't necessarily single out individual bullies and victims initially, but raise awareness of both sides to build empathy in the bullies. If you jump straight to calling out the bullies, identifying your daughter as the source of information, etc., you are more likely to make the problem worse.

Also, given you have had another credible source tell you to stay away from the new school, do you really think it is a good idea to move her there? You could find that you are trading one problem for another, or no marked improvement.

If you had a clear, irrefutable better choice, I would say it might be worth the effort to move her, assuming that no geographic distance would counteract any potential friendships.

Otherwise, if you stay, maybe pare down the extra-curriculars to just the essential ones that build self-esteem and confidence to see if maybe the teacher is correct about your daughter being tired. And then, further, you may actually consider inviting parents to bring their children to the park on a weekend day where you can build bonds and witness interactions first-hand. I know you said you have attempted playdates in the past, but maybe a call-out to everyone might work.

'to be more quick on drop offs and ignore her if she cries.'

This needs to happen. All the issues at the beginning of school at my partners school are from parents who hang around far too long - dump and run is the answer.

The fact that she copes with the extra curriculars and has made friends there would make me think about moving her and that you’ve been unlucky with that class mix. I assume these extras are busy and large classes?

does your dd tell you she doesn’t feel happy in school?

the dump and run thing could work but hmmm it’s essentially ‘get used to bad feelings, mum can’t fix it’ as a strategy.

How hard have you tried to set up play dates? If it were me I would be really trying to push for play dates, even if the parents are lukewarm in their response. If you can get your child and one other child playing together you can help your DD make friends. This works especially well if you do something a bit special, as it gives the children something to bond over. (Doesn’t need to be expensive).

"Fine in school" is meaningless if she is distressed outside school.

I would try the new school, there's nothing to lose.

Tough one! If I had a good alternative I was totally happy with then I think I would move her because I would see having only 5 girls in the class as pretty much guaranteed to get worse for friendships as she gets older. But the other option doesn’t sound that great either, just for totally different reasons, so could be just swapping one problem with another. So long as it doesn’t get any worse where she is I think would stay put whilst also staying on the waiting list for the other schools and hope to have her moved for Y3. 9th on the waiting list at your first choice isn’t bad especially when you consider that the classes can be bigger from Y3. And in the meantime definitely another meeting with the teacher and outside of school continue to push the extra curriculars and encourage friendships through them.

I’m not sure how leaving her where she is can pan out well for her. The ratio of boys to girls isn’t likely to change much soon and she’s learning not to like school. I would move her for the start of year 1.

Thanks for all your replies.

We have reduced a lot of her after school activities to see if this helps, but these activities she used to do after nursery and she was never reluctant to go in then.

My DD does say she doesn’t want to go in, often citing a couple of kids that she doesn’t like at school. We have given her strategies to deal with them as ultimately I won’t be around to help support her so she needs to be able to say to the kids to back off, stop, or give her space.

The reason I don’t wish to dump and run is because this behaviour is a clear sign something isn’t right at school as we never had this issue from day one with her nursery or childminder in the past (not the dodgy neglectful nursery where we also had hysterical crying).

Someone suggested chatting to the SENCO to see if there might be other strategies to try. We are going to try and give her a job when she arrives to see if this gives her a focus for coming into school in the morning. A friend also suggested trying to drop off for breakfast club to see if that might help as well

The other school has in the past had a great reputation but I suspect with the changes in the head and the mass exodus of teachers I’m not sure they have the consistency or high quality of teaching that was there previously. I do feel like I could potentially be swapping one problem for another.

We have set up a WhatsApp group chat and do post that we are meeting at X if anyone wants to come. Only about 3 parents usually reply and it’s usually a no as a number of parents live about 30 minutes away. I have also reached out directly to some parents but for one reason or another they have not been able to meet. Another parent has even thought of organising a summer picnic to try and get everyone together as she noticed none of the parents are keen to meet up. Whilst we have managed the odd play dates, they have been with the boys in the class who my DD will play with but in school one boy won’t let her join in with the boys as she is a girl and she isn’t allowed to play with them.

It is a tricky one and I wonder if we should stay put on the basis that we could try and move her in Y3 but we still have the battle of trying to get her in every morning! I’m not sure the other school is going to be an ideal fit either as I’m not sure the interim head will be staying (the school staff weren’t able to give me a straight answer when I quizzed them).

I do agree with you, she’s happy in many other settings, but the other school isn’t a clear win. It does need time but it concerns me that you can’t facilitate play dates with people that are never available.

when things click, you don’t need to do a tonne of play dates as they play in school. When I got the advice to facilitate play dates it didn’t work, we tried all the kids and I ended up simply doing a lot of free childcare 😂

Yes I would try a move. If no success I'd consider if there's any unidentified Sen going on.

Thing is if the teaching at the other school turns out to be dire you can cover that at home. You can’t make up for poor socialisation at home.

Yes, you can learn at home but you can’t make school a happier place at home.

she’s being bullied so is rightly scared to go into school - dumping and running isn’t going to change that! As if you would happily skip into a place you knew people would physically hurt you and call you names. The fact the school has suggested the OP do this rather than attempt any management of the other children’s behaviour is appalling, definitely should move schools. Children have right to feel safe and happy at school.

She is not being bullied - dear lord!

“Dump and run” 😳

Imagine if this was advice for a partner, friend or elderly relative who was so distressed going into a place of work/care home etc….

OP sounds like there’s more to this than meets the eye. I’d try and get to the bottom of this and not let the school fob you off with ‘she’s fine in school’. She sounds distressed.

the last two terms have been particularly difficult resulting in hysterical sobbing on drop off.

I can’t rule out bullying as she has commented on the older kids pinching her at lunch times and calling her names

She’s 5.
It certainly seems as if she’s being bullied, and she is intimidated by the other children’s behaviour so I’d file that under ‘being bullied’.

Just to add from a parent’s point of view there is no real difference between a Good and an Outstanding school. These one word classifications have been dropped now anyway.

We had a similar problem with both my grandchildren. Our solution was for someone other than mum to take them to school, often me! No problem at all! I did have a couple of times when it was difficult to get them into my car but once at school, no problem. Even the teachers commented on the difference.
Do try to increase your DD’s friendship group by sending her to Rainbows or somewhere else where she will meet more girls. My DGD was one of 7 girls in her KS1 class but she has met lots of girls from other schools at Rainbows, dance and gymnastics classes.