Why do primary schools never recognise the well behaved average achievers?

[CathyBlowsBubbles]

Originally put this in AIBU because I was cross but I could actually do with answers from an educational perspective.
DD (10) is not as academic as either her older sister or her older brother (14&11). She’s a lovely child who isn’t struggling but is bang average. She’s never in trouble and tries her best.

All year, she’s been telling me how she was going to work really hard to get a HT’s award given every other month as she’s never got one. (Older sibs both got lots over the course of their primary school) She’s come home tonight in tears which is so rare for her. Naughty kid in her class got it for ‘making an improved effort to listen in class. Now I know that it’s about equity and that he should be rewarded for improving BUT, where’s her reward for calmly and quietly working her socks off all year? Why is that NEVER, EVER rewarded??? How come her older sibs were forever being rewarded for being super high achievers when it all came so easily to them yet she is never recognised.

She is in a class with a high proportion of kids with behavioural issues and right from Infants, any tiny weekly improvement has been seized on and rewarded. Doesn’t change anything. Behaviour is still poor. Kids are still hurting other kids and disrupting lessons. All TA attention and support is given to those kids too to enable the teacher to teach. How is that fair? How is it fair that the TA supports that group and the teacher ‘stretches’ the high achievers twice a week but the cohort in the middle (apart from one who’s disruptive) are just left to get on with it.

Why don’t they ever even say to us, ‘look, the class is too big, the teacher is frazzled, the TA is struggling too, your kid is no trouble so they just need to suck it up!’ They never say that. They never say, ‘we know this child has received rewards frequently over the part 6yrs without impact but we still need to try despite how demotivating it is to kids who try all year and get nothing in return.’ The system is completely broken when kids like my youngest child gets to the end of Y5 effectively unnoticed. My eldest was on their G&T register and somehow she didn’t go unnoticed! 🤨 I feel so angry on DD’s behalf. She’s never going to get the academic accolades that the older two get. why can’t she be recognised for just being a good kid?

From the other side … I remember teaching (swimming) to a group of 8 children, one of whom was really disruptive. Nothing worked. The whole class was progressing so slowly because of him messing around/talking over me (gone are the days when you were allowed to exclude a child for the benefit of the others). Anyway, one day he behaved, just to the level that everyone else always did. My goodness in that one class, we got through about the equivalent of ten other classes. My praise for him to him was off the charts. Because it was in all the other children’s benefit for me to do whatever I could for that behaviour to continue.

So why don’t schools be upfront and tell parents that? Say they use the awards for that. Have it on their website alongside the truth about how teachers sit calm well behaved kids in the carpet next to poorly behaved kids who sometimes are unacceptably physical towards the others. Print it on the website so everyone can benefit from the transparency

Come off it!! Seriously, how do you imagine that playing out?!? ‘Your kid is getting this award because they’re awful and for once they weren’t’ to the parent, and then all the other parents have it confirmed in writing who the shit kid is. That isn’t going to happen, for obvious reasons.

Because its impossible to do modern teaching to 30+ young children. You can put 30 kids in a class if you teach Victorian style and stand at front and talk at them while they sit at individual desks and use fear to contain them (and put the SEN ones in institutions). You cannot do responsive teaching 30 to 1 to a huge ability range and get it right for even a fraction of the class.

I have a child with ASC who had a behaviour system and it wasnt implemented consistently so undermined the whole concept - it only worked when he specially trained 1:1. A class teacher is trying to do this on a much larger scale - while also running the lesson. Its why class wide systems are pointless in my view - its impossible for teachers to implement them in the consistent and effective way intended. Some children need an individual in the moment reward and consequence system and they need support staff to do that for them.

My other DS school also got it wrong for high achievers - it was the middle and bottom who got stars etc. They had them on a card and DS was humiliated by one teacher for having far fewer stars than other children and asked what he was doing wrong. He was never in trouble in school and was top of the class in every subject / got level 6 SATS. What more could he have done? he hated school and begged me to homeschool him more than once. It really affected his self esteem.

There is behavioural science that proves rewarding the good and ignoring the bad can alter behaviour patterns. But teachers are really inconsistent at implementing the systems or monitoring whether they actually work eg does the child's behaviour change. Its not part of their training. If its used successfully you would be continually changing up the system (as kids figure out loopholes and get round them) and working to fade them out to more natural in the moment praise (as an employer isnt going to be handing out star charts).

Its no better in special schools I once visited a school where kids earned points and cashed them in at the end of the week and one of the rewards was a roll-on deodorant! Yes sure the chance of deodorant on Friday will definitely make my son pay attention on Monday.

Because the school isn't doing their job properly! The school where I work has a strict policy of celebrating every child. Sometimes it's hard to find something (see your 'effort to listen in class' exemplem) but every child should be celebrated and praised

Yeah, no. There was another thread recently similar, I gave more detail in but essentially, this is now the problem with these generations. What you consider schools doing it ‘right’ results in a culture where every child believes they are a winner and special. Great. Then they leave school. Then there is an enormous clash between these generations and workplaces because they have grown up being told they are all winners, all ‘the best’, all award worthy and all really special. Yet, most are bog standard average, IF that.

I saw this coming through the workplace over past several decades when they started this in schools and it does them no good. It creates a huge difference in self-perception versus reality. Then there is a REALLY hard landing when it’s left to the workplace to say that was all a load of shit and you are really an average, which is why x and y are going to run streets ahead of you, and you are not special in any way, except to your parents as their child, which is natural, but apart from that nope. It’s literally the first time these kids will have heard this, despite going through uni (and seemingly doing ‘well’ enough to pass).

Bill Gates put this better than I can. Google his speech to a graduating high school year in the US to try and undo the damage and set expectations. It’s spot on.

Depends on the school. The school I work at insists that every child in the class gets a good work certificate in rotation to prevent quiet children being overlooked. It’s also worth mentioning to the class teacher that your child feels discouraged as they may be able to help with that informally in class.

I don’t mean to do it in real time when giving an award. I mean be up front about it when kids join the school. Say that’s what they use it for. Don’t pretend to young kids that the kids who has tried hardest each time will get the reward. Just be honest.

But also, why not tell that exactly to a parent? Not publicly but to the parent. All this bullshit at parents evening. Be honest. I want to know if you struggle to teach my kids. I want to know that he spends more time pinching classmates than listening. Everyone is talking about resilience. Instead of bullshitting about challenging behaviours, be honest. Don’t sit my gentle well behaved kid next to someone with challenging behaviours just to make your life easier and at least if you do do that, just own it and tell us all that you’re doing it. Why is there all the secrecy?

My DD 10 is in the same boat, OP. It’s a real shame but we just explain that the system is a bit silly because it’s trying to do too many things and ends up missing out some of the really important people who have been consistently good, and do little celebrations ourselves with wider family etc. agree it’s crap though.

But then you’re still telling everyone, albeit in advance, who the badly behaved kids are aren’t you? Some parent would be bound to tell their child ‘oh Jack always gets it because he’s so badly behaved’ and some children would get that reported back to Jack.
Also, as a parent, I always thought this was obvious, and unspoken, what they were used for. Just a tool for teachers. So my children, if they didn’t get it, were always told not to worry about extrinsic motivation, but to work on intrinsic. In age appropriate language!

I agree with this really. It's human nature to notice the exceptions and the remarkable. If you have an unremarkable child then it will be a fight to get their achievements recognised in the same way that the obviously bright or naughty kids will have their achievements recognised. It might not seem fair but life generally isn't. When you join the world of work the Steady Eddies, the competent bit unremarkable are often over looked in favour of those that push themselves forward and play the game.

My biggest advice would be to support your child in an area that they are remarkable at so they can have a 'thing'. Something they are good at and that can be a source of self esteem and praise for them. Asking for the school star system to be put on rota won't achieve anything. Children aren't stupid and they work out pretty quickly that they got it because it was their 'turn'. It all becomes pretty counterproductive

So why does their entry hall have, honesty in big letters and not honesty for children and not staff.
Also, the sitting good kids next to badly behaved kids. I have been through this scenario countless times with mine. Why don’t school just come out and say to parents that they need to use their kids to help the overall class. Why can’t my daughter be sat at a table with 5 others like her? The constant disruption isn’t acceptable and it’s crushed under the carpet. If respect school more if they were just honest.

My dd is autistic and struggles on mainstream .his teacher this year has left him till nearly the end of the year to give him the award (everyone gets it at least once) and when she gave a speech it was so negative I which she had t bothered. Some teachers pick favourites. He excelled last year ina class he felt welcomed and included in.

Also, kids don’t need to be told by their parents that Jack is badly behaved. They live it every day.

I hear you OP. My daughter was just the same. Middle groups academically, quiet, very well behaved. Not talented in sport, art or music. She was constantly overlooked on her years at primary and it was always the same kids getting picked. It used to really upset her.

She has now left school and is training to be a primary teacher. She often mentions other ways of tracking which children have been picked to be in the nativity or choir or for poetry reading or whatever to make sure everyone gets a fair go.

I've said the same thing. I don't blame Gen-whatever they are - for resetting healthy work life boundaries but the entitlement is insane. Life is a meritocracy so why that isn't taught at all schools I have no idea.

If it's any consolation, the highly academic ones at our school win nothing. Because "that would make others feel bad" and we've even had instances of gifted musicians not being able to perform along side classmates because "the classmates would be embarrassed". Erm. Then practice more.

Our school awards average to slightly lower than average kids in the hope it gives them confidence to push them to exceeding. Once they are exceeding, the school just keep them there.

Total joke.

I have a theory that the primary teachers at our school had this experience which is why I think they give prizes and rewards to average kids only.

I hate this too. At my children’s primary the star of the week stuff is meant to be on a rota so they all get one each term. One term my daughter was missed and she saw all of the terribly behaved kids get awards and she had nothing. Now in the scheme of things it’s very minor but it really damaged her self esteem and own sense of worth. Lots of ‘well next term maybe I just need to be naughty to get a certificate’ ‘no-one is noticing me’ ‘I’m not even worth a certificate’ etc. it was heartbreaking that something so small hurt so much.

I complained and she got it for something really rubbish first week of term back and she was like ‘they’ve just given me this because you had a moan- it’s pointless’. She wasn’t wrong. I have to say though her teacher this year has done it much better. She’s had them when she’s really achieved something and it has had meaning because she can link her work and effort for something she tried hard
at with recognition and reward.

Absolutely agree. Why should only the feelings of that parent and badly behaved child be taken into account and have everyone pretend that they've behaved the best and are better than the rest of the class, when everyone but that child and parent know it's nonsense!!

Star of the week is bollocks

And actually a lot of high achieving kids DON'T get recognised because they are also overlooked and all the awards go to the kids who misbehave or are struggling as it's become a behavioural management tool.

On the HT awards point - they’re given out every other month? So maybe 6 in a whole year?
That's 24 children who don’t get one???
So most of them?
It’s prize giving at my child’s secondary school tomorrow. Only 12 children out of 100 will actually get a prize. One of mine is definitely one of the kinds of kids who would be in the running for a prize. But she didn’t get picked. That’s life! We move on.

I think rewards are so tricky. I'm a high school teacher and I can be a bit rubbish at remembering to add house points.

I mainly teach key stage four and I try to make a point though of speaking to all of the children in the class every single week though (I'm an English teacher). Most of the time it's to do with their work, or praise what they've written, but sometimes it's to remark on the football match from the previous day, or the netball, or to ask about pets, comment on art work or just ask them a question in general.

I think children know if you are genuinely interested in them as people, and that feels like an acknowledgement. I always want the children in my classes that they can be top, middle or bottom of the class and that doesn't align with their value as a person!

I used to think exactly the same as you OP about my DC's old primary school.

They used to focus on the high flying kids and the naughty ones. All the ones on the middle were just...well.....ignored.

Awards assembly? You could name the ones who would receive it before it happened.

When one of my DC was in year 2, sats were looming, and some kids had letters asking them to attend booster classes after school to help them. My DC had nothing, so I asked the class teacher. I was told "we are focussing on those children who are on the cusp of passing, not those who need more help" 🤨

For once, I was actually lost for words........

I just level with my kids and say that when you don't have trouble reaching expectations (work or behaviour) that you don't need stickers to achieve that. I liken it to how we used to give them chocolate buttons for using the loo successfully during potty training, but don't now because it is commonplace for them.

One parent I know validates her son's (very well-developed) sense of injustice over stuff like this and, to be honest, I don't think it does him any favours

It’s not hard.

my kids got awards all the way through primary for

being kind and being helpful