Appeals for KS2 advice

[Trypolar]

Hi All anyone recently successfully appealed for a KS2 primary place and could share your appeal grounds? Or anyone know which type of grounds appear to have most weight? Many thanks 😊

You need your own appeal grounds. What are they?

You need to be looking at what the preferred school offers that the existing school does not that is of particular benefit to your child. eg Extra curricular, academic extension support (if v bright), pastoral care (if evidenced extra needs), evidenced bullying not being addressed.

Not better y6 SATs or better Ofsted or easier childcare.

Thank you, we have a sibling link, I'm just trying to find out which type of things have been most successful for those who've been there, done that, so I'll have a better idea of the type of things we should prioritise 😊

If you say what you are thinking of experts can tell you what is most persuasive.

But for example a windband is a good argument for someone who us progressing well with a clarinet, but not so much for someone who is thinking about learning, so it all very much depends what you can evidence.

Every appeal is different. Arguments that have worked for others may not work for you.

Having a sibling link is irrelevant for appeals unless you have medical evidence that your child has a greater need than others to be at the same school as their sibling. You need to identify things that this school offers your child that are not available at their current school and that you can show are particularly relevant for your child. The suggestion from the previous poster re clarinet is the kind of thing the appeal panel is looking for. You are trying to show that the disadvantage to your child from not being admitted outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil.

Following as I’m going to appeal for a Y3 place (DD is coming toward the end of Y2. My DD’s younger brother attends the school as they are

Thoughts so far: -
The school is currently over PAN in years 3-6.
The school has regularly admitted over PAN in Years 3-6 for the past 3 years
The current Reception classes and incoming Reception classes in September are only 45 children not 60 (so there will be 30 unused spaces). This means there will be less pressure toilets and other communal facilities as the number of pupils is on a downwards trajectory.
My DS has an EHCP and attends a special class/additional provision for children children with C&I needs. No other school in the city I live has this provision.
The desired school has an exceptional reputation for children with SEN achieving well as evidenced by their most recent Ofsted report.
It is thought that DD may be neurodivergent and is very sensory. The desired school has forest school for all pupils once day a week, sensory trails, pods to reduce sensory stimulation, soft play, outdoor gym equipment and an OPAL programme for all pupils that encourages outdoor play.

Need to think of some more!

Kind regards

Hannah

You need to look on the school’s website and download or request a copy of their entrance criteria, then tailor your appeal to this. Eg if they have distance to school as 1 and sibling as 4, discuss distance first and vice versa.
if they are saying they have no space you also need to think carefully if the school is still the right choice for you. Any class over 30 does impact learning, teacher time etc so if your child is higher needs or you want the school for more support then you kind of shoot yourself in the foot by saying that as they can just say if they need that then choose a school with less pupil numbers.

Number of pupils in ks1 isn’t that relevant as you don’t honestly want your 3 old in year 3 to use reception toilets and cloakroom do you.
I would look at staff numbers, if they have capacity for 2 TAs for 2eyfs classes then they r over staffed so that staff member can come to ks2 to offset the challenges of a class over 30 in ks2

Maybe toilets was a bad example, but all children from R to Y6 eat in the canteen at the same time.

The current reception cohort has 45 children with 2 teachers and 2 TA’s. The incoming Reception cohort in September is 44 children and will be in two classes. This will require two teachers. I don’t know about TA’s (but they have two R and two Y1 TAs at the moment) I have asked the Head EYFS/KS1 if they intend to have a 3 classes across R and KS1 due to low number and she said no they are planning on two R and two Y1 classes in Sept.

I'm afraid @wafflesmgee clearly has no idea how appeals work. Their advice is completely wrong. You will not win an appeal by talking about how well your child fits the admission criteria. Unless you are arguing that a mistake has been made, the admission criteria are irrelevant for appeals. If you make your case entirely about the admission criteria, you will lose as you will not have given the appeal panel any basis on which they could award your child a place. An appeal is about showing that your child will be disadvantaged if they don't go to this school and convincing the appeal panel that this outweighs any issues the school will face from having an additional pupil. It is about allowing giving a child who doesn't fit the criteria but really needs this school a chance of getting a place.

Their second piece of advice is no better. The appeal panel cannot tell the school how to organise itself. Suggesting that a TA could be moved from EYFS to KS2 will simply be ignored.

@ThatsGoingToHurt - The fact the school regularly goes over PAN in these years helps you as it suggests they can do so again without too many problems.

The fact they are under PAN in infants is helpful, but the panel has to consider the possibility that the school may fill up in those years, however unlikely that may seem. If PAN is 60 and they only have 45 in, say, Y1, if they receive applications for 15 pupils to go into Y1, they must all be admitted.

Your son's EHCP is not relevant, I'm afraid. I am guessing that you might want to argue that there will be transport and/or childcare issues if your daughter isn't admitted to the same school as him, but that is not something appeal panels can take into account.

Appeal panels generally aren't too interested in Ofsted reports or a school's reputation. However, if you can identify specific provision at this school that is missing from the offered school and will be beneficial for your daughter, that will help. The forest school is a good point in this regard, but it would be stronger if you have medical evidence to back up your daughter's need for this provision.

My DD is in Y2 at the moment. With hindsight I should have applied for school B for Reception entry for DD (but I didn’t know that DS was autistic at the time - he was only 18 months) as we would have got in even though we were out of catchment. I originally discounted school B as it is 2 miles away. Whereas school A is 5 mins walk away.

The crux of the matter is that school A have not been great with DD and I was looking to move her anyway. However, I had to wait for DS’s school place to be confirmed before I applied for an in year transfer. I know you can’t appeal on the grounds that the existing school is rubbish (so I need to think of some good appeal reasons!) I suspect that DD may have ADHD but the school don’t see this. The school suspect autism (but they haven’t collated any evidence apart from saying she fidgets a lot and likes to take her shoes off in class so they can’t do an autism referral and the GP won’t do one due to lack of evidence ce either. She’s well behaved but hates school. Her attendance is excellent because I won’t let her have days off school (there is a different excuse everyday). The trouble is that her SEN support plan is a cut and paste job. Doesn’t evidence any of her C&I or sensory needs and I have given up trying to get the school to do something as it’s like speaking to a brick wall. So I’m lacking in medical evidence at the moment. I can’t afford a private ASD/ADHD assessment. If I do managed to get onto the NHs waitlist it is 3/4 years. I don’t want it to get to the stage where DD refuses to go to school.

Sorry! I stand corrected and apologise for my well meant but bad advice.

Some people come on here, particularly on legal, and give advice that is so bad you wonder if it is deliberate! That isn't you. Your advice may not have been great, but your heart is in the right place.

Admissions appeals panels do not have the authority to order schools to configure the classes differently.

If there is a deficit of 30 children coming through, the school could quite easily be deciding to go to a mixed year class to reduce costs.

There is no way that you will win an appeal by suggesting a reallocation of staffing.

Thank you all, for all your advice it does seem that it's not made totally clear for parents but overall it seems from what you've said and what I've found online is to focus on what that school can specifically provide for your child over the current one. It does seem strange that the practicalities appear to be totally disregarded, as though increased stress in a household around transport has zero impact on children!

There is a lot of stress involved to the school and other children when admitting over PAN. I now have 34 in a tiny, hot room that only comfortably fits 30. The kids are uncomfortable and that affects the learning.

If you have 15 fewer children in two classes, that means the school has lost at least £60K based on the minimum awpu for one year. If they are short again this year, that may mean another £60K shortfall unless there are plans in the pipeline to take children from elsewhere? It may be that the LA will not allow them to alter the pan.
They still need two teachers for 45 children, and this will be part of the panel's consideration. An appeal child brings no initial funding as it is lagged and will mean no funding for resources, FSM money, PP money if they qualify until halfway through the year, and PP funding is a year behind.

There is no requirement to have a TA in any class, and it is up to each school to decide where one is needed based on the needs of the children. You may find they move between classes. They may be attached to specific children .I can not say

Your argument is specific to you and the school's case. Whatever you put, the presenting Officer will have prepared a response to offset your argument. They should highlight that there may be space, but there is a financial implication for having these spaces.

I would expect the panel to ask about the support provided day to day and the arrangements for any SATS test if taken. The involvement of any outside agencies and the conversations you have had with SENDco at the required school to ensure they can meet her needs.