11 plus unsure?

[Lkt32]

My Y5 daughter decided quite recently she wants to do the 11 plus. Totally her choice, not coming from us.
There is one super selective school in the Borough and neighbouring Borough do 11 plus, so two tests.

She's always done well at school and is bright but 11 plus is so different. It seems the few from her class doing it have had tutors since y4 and do an insane amount of study.
I've signed up to Atom Learning and she's fine on maths, OK on English, but struggling with VR and NVR. She did her first mock test for VR on Atom (timed) and came out average. Is this a sign she's not right for it? Or is there time to make a significant improvement? We've only been doing it 2 weeks but there seems so many topics and we started late compared to others.
It's her choice and she wants ro do it, but she's also not mad keen on all the study.

The two tests are both GL. One is only VR and NVR, the other is VR, NVR, Maths, English.

100% do it. If she passes and gets a place in a grammar school she won't look back.

There are people out there that would give their organs away for a state-funded grammar school on their doorstep. The facilities and burden of expectation they place on their pupils just isn't available in the state sector.

I should know - I've been a teacher for 20+ years.

That's not really our feelings about it. There's some schools I would be very happy with that we've seen, but we might get in on distance
. The only grammar in our Borough is super selective so I'm not sure how likely that one is, plus I have concerns about how pushy they are there.
The neighbouring Borough I know less about.

I'm more trying to get an idea if we're wasting our time or based on how she's doing so far.
She previously said she didn't want to do it so we left it quite late before looking at any of this.

A big part of the Reasoning tests is being familiar with the test format and being able to do it quickly. They improve with practice at the tests.

Could you ask her teacher if she thinks she is likely the pass the 11+.

Thanks. That's what I was hoping but it just seems so many different elements to practice.

Teacher is very positive about the idea, but that school is always super positive in my experience.

Not too late to prep. DD started prep for 11+ end of May in year 5 and got into the schools she wanted. We were told by many how difficult it was to get into these schools, so I was not sure what would happen. But it is better to try then not try. And even if your dc does not get in, it is a good experience to have...working towards a goal, preparing for something you want etc. Even better if she does make it. Good luck!

Thank you. It's reassuring to hear from someone who started around the same time. It's a bit daunting when others started beginning of year 4.
I hope she'll get something out of it, even if she doesn't get in. I think this is the first time she's got a lot of answers wrong, which she's finding difficult but It's probably a good lesson.

Make sure you look at what they are looking for on the exam. Each school is different. So check, as for example some dont need VR or NVR. Or some focus only on that. Some you need everything (English, math, NVR, VR). Also, creative writing. The most important is to know what you need to prep for so you can plan accordingly.

Thanks.
We're using Atom Learning, which let's you put your target schools and sets it up accordingly.
Both tests she's wanting to do are GL. One is VR and NVR only. The other is Maths, English, VR and NVR.
She's doing really well with the maths. I think vocabulary is an issue in English and VR, so I got some vocabulary flashcards. She hates the NVR, and I can see why! It's so much harder when I did the 11+ in the 90s!

We used Atom and have been through 11+ twice already and just so you know, Atom is not always accurate on the test format, even though they will use the school name. Def look online at the school website and research what the test format will actually be like. Atom is similar to the online tests. If the exams are written, your dc will need to practice written format.

Thanks for the heads up.
I did get some CGP books before we started Atom and checked it then on the school websites, so I think it's the same, but I will double check.
Atom have an option to print off mock tests, which is what I did for the first one, so it's more like the exam. I've downloaded some free materials from the school website too.

@Lkt32 that is great, if the school you are applying to has sample papers on their website, def use those. They will be helpful. DD had many online exams, very similar to Atom and only one written. DS had so many different types of exams so it was a lot more to prep for (online, written, and paper multiple choice).

Honestly, the difference can be night and day.

If your child feeds off good results, high expectations and academia then it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and something we in Bristol could only dream of (or pay £22,000 pa for). The non-selective state equivalent pales in comparison.

I'd suggest you 100% go for it. The worst that can happen is they say 'no'.

I agree. Concentrate ainly on the NVR, you can find online resources and do it yourselves, make it fun and interesting. You will probably find it difficult (I do), and that will make her realise it's normal to not be great at everything.

If your girl is good at English comprehension and reads a lot, her verbal reasoning will be good with a bit of sharpening up. Again you can find resources to help her with that.

Do have plenty of fun, go to places; let her explore life and ideas so she has things to talk and write about.

If she excels at some parts of the eleven plus and scapes through on another, that is fine.

It's not worth hiring tutors for 11+, so much money spent, often for nothing. They certainly do not always produce results and that puts more pressure on the child. A decent school and parents who enjoy intellectual pursuits should suffice. Does anyone remember the documentary series about this subject, in Bexley borough, a few years back? I felt so sorry for the children involved.

Two sets of neighbours' children went to a good grammar school; a friend's two girls and my son got places at selectives, his dad and I both passed eleven plus quite well and received grammar places, none of us had any extra tuition (I certainly would have objected to that :)).

However life doesn't end if she fails. Many kids go on to do very well from the local comp if it is a fairly decent one; equally many grammar school children don't do anything much academically, leaving after GCSEs. That is life, it is OK to fail as long as you move on, find your own way and eventually do what you want.

Thank you. The balance is very important to us. A couple of her classmates and not available at weekends to do stuff now because they're studying for 11plus, and are even missing the school residential trip because they've got to revise. Neither me nor her are up for that sort of approach at all.

She's quite an avid reader but the practice has highlighted some gaps in vocabulary. I got some flashcards yesterday and she was happily playing with them this morning and sorting into one's she's confident with and those she's not. Going to make some games out of it. .

The NVR is definitely the trickiest and I can't do them all either. She's trying to avoid it because she's hard but I think that's what she needs most practice with.

Sorry not true. Depends on your area and if grammars are local and your local schools. My kid did 11 plus but in the end didn’t want to go to a single sex school.

Difference in grades between the two? 3%. Thats it. I can name at least ten kids at his school that passed and went to the local state and are thriving.

His school (local state school) - new theatre, gym, Astro, 50 plus clubs, oxbridge bound kids, amazing school trip etc

Yeah that isn’t every school and I know how lucky we are. But saving the over 45 minute journey on a bus each way, kids no where near where we live and the fact that disruptive kids and bullying are everywhere we are very glad we didn’t choose grammar.

There is sometimes a snobbery around grammars which isn’t always true and we haven’t looked back. My kid got 8 or over on recent GCSE’s - I say this to show that grammars aren’t the end all be all.

However having said all of this my kid like the OP wanted to do the 11 plus and it set him up really well for seniors.

Since you've mentioned neighbouring Borough... do check the admissions criteria. You may be Out of Catchment and need a lot higher score. Passing might not mean getting a place. Sometto prepare your DD fir.

Atom is hard, so if she’s average there she doing great

Also some kids just get it they don’t need the length of practice you think they need

my oldest got his top choice but we went through hell and back , with tutors who we had to change multiple times

my youngest now in Y5, no tutoring and is acing; he has good memory and method

NVR is just odd if it’s your first time, this one you have to practice along with creative writing (if your target school does this !)

also keep it fun with lots of treats , you don’t want to put her off x

This is my sentiments too. We're not a grammar school Borough. There's only one and it's super selective.
There's at least 2 other schools I would be very happy for my daughter to go to but the furthest distance offeres has been shrinking and I'm not sure she would get in. Another that's excellent, but we don't stand a chance on distance.
Our mostly likely option seems pretty good, just wouldn't be my first choice.
I see the 11 plus as potentially increasing our options but at this point I'm not sure if we would even put the grammar as first choice.
My daughter said she wants to do it to challenge herself.

I think only one school would be a possibility for neighbouring Borough as they use distance as well. I know someone on our road got in there 2 years ago and there's usually 1 or 2 each year from our primary that go there, but definitely no guarantees. I think the others in that Borough are unlikely.

@Lkt32 how did you get on? I was going to PM you as Im in the same boat and unsure what to do

PM! I’ve had experience with the last minute tutoring.

Also speaking as a teacher (retired after a 45 year career) I would say that the ‘burden of expectation’ is absolutely not right for some children, no matter how bright they are. I’d be choosing a school by the ‘feel’ and the fit, not by exams.