Primary School Appeal

[Mumofboys94]

Hi

I appreciate there are plenty of threads on this but I would really like some advise on our situation.

Son (3) didn't get a place at our first choice primary.

We moved house in March - Old address was 1.6miles away and was on the application but it was noted that we would be moving within the next month or so.

We have pulled him out of his old nursery and he has started at the school we wanted him to get a place at in nursery this week. Older brother also attends this school in Y6 (Will be in high school in September so don't think this is anything to help us get a place)

Council have advised they have used our new address however they have given him a place in a school a far distance away (6 schools closer on google maps)

Our new neighbours son has got a place at the school we wanted (so why haven't we)

I understand that the fact we do not like the school or the area of the place offered is not worth mentioning in the appeal, however I have a few points below.

1. school is a 15 min drive - I have 1 year old twins and a mini van, so on days I have the van I'm looking at a potential 40 min round trip, getting in and out of carseats, in pushchairs, parking our large van in busy tiny streets. On days my husband needs the van I would need to take 2 buses each way, most of which I cant get a double pram on. School we are hoping for is a 10 min walk if that.

2. Work - again not sure if this is worth mentioning but I would have to reduce my hours, I work from home and already use my lunch to do the school runs

3. This school is a one class per year which is what we want as my son was massively overwhelmed at his previous nursery which had 40 plus children.

I understand there are worse problems to have, but we love the school and have a strong bond with the teachers due to 10 year old being there, the only reason my 3 year old wasn't in the nursery from the start is there was a nursery on our old doorstep and with newborn twins it just made sense to send him.

Do we have any stance of appealing due to our neighbours son getting in and us not? I have asked if they have used our new address and they said they have but I just cannot see it given the school they have offered us.

Also is it worth getting legal representation for the hearing?

Sorry for the ramble and thanks if you made it this far!!

Did they use your new address but count it as a late application? Meaning that the nearer schools were full with on time applicants?

Often councils have a cut off date after the closing date at which address changes need to be confirmed, but you changed address very close to the allocation date.

I don't think so, we had already purchased the house when I applied for the school, but due to various issues things got delayed. I put the full address in the notes section and advised when we were expected to move. When I called to ask to confirm they had used the new address last week they confirmed they used the new one.

Is the school you were allocated your second choice?

No, second choice was the school attached to his previous nursery. This school is not one that we had even heard of but after hearing other peoples views and driving by it is not one that we would consider

None of those will win an appeal. If it is infant class size then only an error in processing the application which then denied your dc a place is likely succeed. When was the cut off for the address to be updated? Some areas allow a couple of weeks after the deadline to change address after a move(evidenced by council tax letter, proof of exchange/completion or similar) , others no additional time at all. It sounds as if your move was too late to count at the time of initial allocations but will now for a waiting list place. Do any of the other nearer six have a space or can you go on wl for them too?

The admissions team have advised that they have used our new address for the application, this was confirmed on email, which is why we are confused as to why our neighbour got in but we didn't. Admissions have told me that in a straight line the school offered is the closest school with a place.

I am waiting to hear back from admissions and school of our first choice to go on the waiting list as both are telling me to contact the other to request wait list. Schools policy online states that I need to write to them but they are saying contact admissions, who are telling me to contact school.

Do you have a letter from the admissions authority showing why you were refused - This would normally put details such as your measured distance from the first choice which would show very clearly which address they had used (Assuming distance was the criteria you fell into).

If you don't have those details, I would ask for them as soon as possible because that will make it clear which address has been used.

If they have used your new address, it is possible that your neighbour was the last child admitted by distance and you were just very unlucky, or perhaps they got a place by being in a higher up admissions criteria.

Different local authorities do differ on what evidence they will require to prove address and some will take evidence of a completed purchase, but it is considerably more common that a change of address like this would have resulted in them using the previous address.

if a mistake has not been made and there are 30 children in the class, the Appeal would be ICS - infant class size - which are extremely difficult to to win, and none of your reasons would be relevant.

If it's not infant class size it's slightly easier but you would still need to show that the detriment to your child not attending is greater than the detriment to the school of taking another child and annoying logistics/work are not reasons for appeal I'm afraid.

Are you sure your neighbour didn't meet a higher admissions criteria than distance? That's the most likely explanation for why they got a place and you didn't. Either that or they literally got the last space, in which case you should be right at the top of the waiting list. This is all if they did indeed use the new address.

Before you appeal, you need to be clear on which grounds you are appealing. The allocated school not being convenient or to your liking are not reasons to appeal.

Moving house during the application process can sometimes cause errors or confusion, even though they are saying they used the new address. It's possible someone could have misunderstood your query. Had you completed before 15th January and do you have firm evidence of this? Otherwise I'm confused as I didn't think you were allowed to use a new address you intend to move to, even if the sale is in the process of going through? Unless you'd completed by deadline day, the old address had to be used and the new address will be processed as a late application once you have moved. Are you sure that isn't what has happened here? It sounds possible. If it is what has happened, it's not an error unless contracts had been exchanged, it's the process. The only error would be them telling you they've used the new address.

I don't have the reason why we were refused, every time I have asked for this I just get told that its due to the school being full. I will call again today to ask for the specific reason. Having spoken with the neighbour they don't believe they were any higher up than we were.

No, having spoken with the neighbour I don't believe they were any higher up than us, if anything as its a CofE Academy and we actually attend the local church for various services and various childcare activities and groups I would of thought we would of been higher up than them.

I understand that the majority of my reasons are not grounds for appeal, even though they do make it extremely difficult for us to get my son there (we won't be sending him to the offered school no matter what the outcome of the appeal but will keep the place open for now?

No we didn't complete before the 15th of January, I used my old address on the application but made a note of the new address. What your saying may be the case, but I have had 3 phone calls and have 4 emails from them confirming they have used our new address in the application so I am just confused as I feel like I am going round in circles everyone on here is saying they could not have possibly used the new address but applications are adamant they did use it. For reference, we live a mile from the school and there is a housing estate further down the road where I know at least 10 children have got in so I don't think its the case our neighbour got the last place on distance.

I guess all we can do is hope we get a place on the wait list

if anything as its a CofE Academy and we actually attend the local church for various services and various childcare activities and groups I would of thought we would of been higher up than them.

Is church attendance on the list of criteria? If so, there should have been an additional form confirming how frequently you went etc.

It does sound like they used your new address but treated you as a late application. This is probably the correct thing to do, but they should have explained the implications, as then you might have asked them to stick with your old address as an on time application. This would presumably have meant you got a place at his current nursery.

If a mistake has been made you can appeal, but if they have followed the process but not explained it well, that is a trickier issue.

I agree with @BendingSpoons - although they are saying otherwise (or possibly being unclear themselves), the allocations are usually run on the address at time of application (or as amended in a short time window after which the LA would publish)

For example, Surrey - treat address changes differently if they happen between 15 Jan and 12 Feb or after 12 Feb but before 16 April - your LA should have a page like this.

Moving within Surrey after the closing date
If you applied to us by the closing date and your child moves within Surrey after 15 January 2025, but on or before 12 February 2025, let us know the date they moved and provide us with evidence of their new address by 12 February 2025, for example a copy of your tenancy agreement or the date of completion. As long as the move took place on or before 12 February and you send us evidence by that date, your child's new address will be used in the initial allocation of school places on 16 April 2025 (the national offer day).
If your child moves within Surrey after 12 February 2025, or if you provide us with evidence of a prior move after this date, their previous address will be used for initial allocation purposes on 16 April 2025. Their new address will be used for waiting lists from 16 April, or the date they move if a move has not yet taken place.

www.surreycc.gov.uk/schools-and-learning/schools/admissions/primary-junior-and-infant/apply/step-6-changes

Yeah this makes sense, although even from our old address it was the second closest school hence my eldest getting a place (I understand this was a while ago) I will try and call again today to get more information as it seems no one is actually clear on what has happened

The form for the school could only be signed if you worship at the church at least once a month, we did not meet this criteria so could not get the form signed

In terms of its distance from your old address - if the housing estate has been built between your older one starting and now, and the estate is closer to the school, that might have changed things.

Then you would not be in church criteria and neither would your neighbour - there’s no “half marks”. The kids on the estate may have met the church criteria.

Does your neighbour have an older child at the school? Usually higher up the list if you have a child already at the school. Neighbour’s child may have needs you are not aware of which put them higher up the list

Find out where you are on the waiting list. If it’s quite high up you may well qualify by September.

No child in school, we have spoken with them and they openly told us that the only criteria they had was the distance, which is 6th on the entry criteria.

Will they tell me this now or do I have to wait for a certain date once people have accepted ect?

If you didn't complete before 15th January it would have been unfair to use your new address. You're a late applicant (from the new address), which is why you've missed out. I'm sorry to hear they have confused you by claiming new address was considered but tbh, if you're telling them you made a note of it, whoever dealt with your enquiry probably assumed you meant you'd completed before 15th Jan and were wrongly assuring you it would have been considered, without checking properly. That's wrong of them, but not as wrong as it would have been to have accepted your new address on the original application. That would have been a fraudulent application.

Thank you this is really useful, ours doesn't have anything like this with dates, it just says to let them know, I think this is the first thing I need to get clarity on as all the emails from them say they have used the new address but looking at all these responses they can't have. I will contact as soon as they open to ask why we didn't get a place and some form of writing to confirm this.

Thank you

If you could not get the form signed, you will not have been given any priority for attending the local church.

Most, but not all, appeals for primary schools are heard under infant class size rules. You say this school has one class per year, so those rules will apply if it has 30 pupils in each year. If that is the case, you can only win an appeal if a mistake has been made.

On the information you have given, I suspect the fact you didn't move until March means you were treated as a late application from your new address, which means you would only get offered one of your preferred schools if they still had a place available after all the on time applications were processed. If that is the case, you would probably have been better off if you had asked them to stick to your old address for processing your application.

If I am wrong and there is evidence that a mistake was made, you have a good chance of winning an appeal. Without that, your chances of winning an infant class size appeal are minimal.

If it is not an infant class size case you have a better chance. However, your first two arguments are completely irrelevant for appeal, and I struggle to see a way of making a convincing case on your third point. You would need to find things this school offers that are not available at the allocated school and are particularly relevant to your son.