Was I daft to put in a second choice?

[Kardelen]

Unfortunately we have not been given our first choice of primary school ( Reception).

They have offered the second place, and said we will be on the waiting list for our first choice.

Im not happy with the second choice, as it’s further away and have no connections and no one can collect my child apart from me.

i am a working mum, and my husbands health declined since I had applied so he cannot do the schools. I also have a daughter who will be starting nursery in another place so it will be a mission

i hadn’t even applied because I wanted the second choice, but it was merely because I didn’t want to be placed somewhere even further away. This was the second closest school to us.

Now, my neighbours right next to us have applied and got their first choice ( they didn’t put down a second choice). So now I feel extremely daft!

is it true in your experience that if I never had put down another school name I would have got my first choice?!

I will be appealing, has anyone else appealed and got their first choice?

The neighbour also suggested I don’t accept the second offer, as then they may prioritise me for my first choice. is this true in your experiences? Did anyone decline the offer and get prioritised?

or how long was the wait if you did accept the second choice ?

There is no first preference first system though, so you don’t get any priority for putting a school first than for putting it sixth. It’s not that if you miss out on your first choice you are further back in the queue for your other choices than others who put them first.

I work in a primary school and every year a representative from the local authority comes to give a talk to year 6 parents so I feel pretty well informed on this topic. They do try to pay heed to parents preferences when they have leeway but if the school is oversubscribed they have to go by the admissions criteria. Ultimately the most important thing for parents to know is not to put only one choice down. The local authority is not obliged to indulge you because that’s what you really want. Use your choices wisely.

I got my first choice for reception this week, put down three choices as we are out of catchment for the first choice so wanted to make sure I had decent back ups.

Another mum at nursery who also applied and is out of catchment too is ‘astonished’ that she didn’t get in, as ‘I only put one choice, I thought they had to place you if you did that? The school they’ve allocated wouldn’t have been my second or third choice, how are they allowed to do that?’

So in my experience your neighbour is talking rubbish!

Yes, I completely agree. Your post could have been misread though as that putting a school first gives you priority so I was just clarifying that that wasn't how it works. The admissions criteria is applied to all applicants regardless of where the school was placed on the form.

is it true in your experience that if I never had put down another school name I would have got my first choice?!

It isn’t true in anyone’s experience because the system is ruled by law.

Every year people think they can beat the system by only putting one school, or listing the same school 3 times or only putting down hugely popular schools but which they have no hope of getting into based on the admissions criteria.

Your neighbour is badly misinformed. Do not take her advice.

You can now go on to waiting lists for any other schools that you think might work.

Is your neighbours house closer to the school than yours? If not and you’re not aware of any other circumstances which would result in higher priority (eg child from care, sibling etc) I’d be finding out what the furthest admission was.

Not all LAs put automatically add to waiting lists. The one I worked for didn’t. Parents had to request to go on waiting lists.

Oh sorry @cramptramp this is very true! Was trying to say it should be possible to be considered for schools lower down in preference

Wow, it never fails to surprise me how stupid some people are. Why on Earth don't they bother to read up properly about something which is so important?

Can you imagine if it did work like that? A popular one form entry school with a PAN of 30 receives 60 applications from people who list it as their only choice. Ok then, we'll magically find space for all of you despite only having room for half because you obviously don't want anywhere else and therefore it wouldn't be fair to give you something you didn't even apply for. It's fine, we'll just discard the applications from those above you in the admissions criteria, such as those with older siblings at the school or who live in the same street as the school, because they stated on their form that they'd also be ok with school B or C so we'll ship them out there instead. Do these people really need it spelling out like that to realise how ridiculous they sound? It's like they literally only consider their own needs, without any thought for anyone else's circumstances who applied and the fact that those who got the spaces met the published admissions criteria ahead of them.

Plenty of idiots do just put one option, and many of them will get lucky because they meet the criteria ahead of others who applied. It definitely won't be because they only listed that one preference though, no matter how much they convince themselves that it was and that they therefore found a loophole to beat the system. Plenty of other people who take this risk end up with it backfiring spectacularly (and are usually the most likely to kick off and try to appeal because the school they're allocated is undesirable or totally unsuitable for their needs). More fool them.

My friend wasn’t. She only put a first choice, all schools were full from others’ choices. It was 4 months before her child got a place. Sometimes it really does happen 🤷‍♀️

Can you imagine if it did work like that? A popular one form entry school with a PAN of 30 receives 60 application

Back in the dim and distant, I met a parent who thought they would create extra classes if more children put a school down first. She was an otherwise intelligent woman so how she thought buildings, playgrounds etc would stretch to this, I have no idea.

Parents who say to only put down one school and get that school are lucky idiots. You need to use all your choices.

Sit on the waiting list for your preferred school.
There's always the chance that those other parents who got in have children who have an EHCP or kids who were baptised before yours.

That's hilarious. Can you imagine if it really was that easy to get what you want? I wouldn't mind but Local Authorities do make it very clear how it works when you apply. If people actually bothered to read up on it, it would save so much annoyance, confusion and misinformation when things don't go someone's way.

I knew someone one year who put school A, B and C down as her preference for her first dc, as did her neighbours (in the same order), who also had first dcs applying.

Neighbour to her left got school A, neighbour to her right got school B, friend opposite got school C. She got none of her choices.

And when she looked into it, on distance, it just happened that all three happened to be the last taken by each one.
It's unusual, but it does happen. The good news is that you almost certainly will be top of the waiting lists - in my friend's case she'd been offered the first two by the end of June, and was also offered the third in September, but refused as her dc had started and was happy.

@BoleynMemories13 To be fair to her, it was before we had started the application process. But still.., logic!!

No that’s not how it works. Is your neighbours first choice the same as yours? If so it might be worth checking they applied the distance criteria correctly, but if you’re on the edge of catchment it’s possible that she got the last place by being a few meters closer. Good news is in that case you’ll be near the top of the waiting list.
if that’s not the case then either they qualified in a higher category ( usually these are Sen, looked after or previously looked after children, siblings, sometimes faith or staff children) or they lied on their application.

Your child only needs to be offered a place by the time they reach statutory age for starting school, I.e the term after their 5th birthday. So for example a child with a June birthday doesn't need to start school until the September after their 5th birthday so could in theory be placed directly into year 1 by the council.

You should never, ever, only put one choice. So you did the right thing. I actually don’t think the system should let you enter fewer than the correct number.

Give the schools admissions people a ring next week, ask to go on the waiting list. In the mean time, accept the place you have been offered, and go and have a look.

Many people don't understand what a catchment area actually means, you need to look at the oversubscription criteria for a school as many schools would be over subscribed if they admitted every child in their catchment. Catchment areas can also overlap between schools and some schools have inner and outer catchment areas. This is an example of an oversubscrition criteria: Oversubscription Criteria:

If the school is not oversubscribed, all applicants will be offered a place.
In the event that the school receives more applications than the number of places it has available, places will be given
to those children who meet any of the criteria set out below, in order until all places are filled.

1. All children whose statement of special educational needs (SEN) or Education, Health Care Plan (EHCP) which names the school will be admitted before any other places are allocated.
2. Highest priority will then be given to looked after children and all previously looked after children who apply for a place at the school. (see previous definition)
3. Children living in the school’s catchment area. (Priority will next be given to children with siblings already at the school and on roll at the time of the child’s admission. Siblings include step siblings, foster siblings, adopted siblings and other children living permanently at the same address. Priority will not be given to children with siblings who are former pupils of the school.)
4. Children living outside the school’s catchment area.

This school often runs out of spaces before cat 4 is reached so even though children may be in the outher reaches of the catchment they may not get a space. To make it even more complicated the school is in the far east of it's catchment not in the centre.

What all of this really underlines is that before your child moves school again you need to download and read all the admissions policies for all of the schools you are interested in. Our area is especially complex in that we are at a meeting point of 3 LEAs and two of which have grammar schools.

Other people have explained how it works, and they are right, you bring on the list for school 2 will not have effected where you were on the list for school 1. As your friend lives so close to you, the cut off distance may well have been very close to your house, which means you are probably quite near the top of the waiting list. (Here’s hoping someone else have moved house since applying and now wants a school closer to new home.)

”catchment” areas don’t really exist now in England /Wales, you need to call up and ask for the furthest distance offered.

A bit of an aside, but set catchment areas do indeed still exist in some areas in England and Wales. They are still the norm in the area I now live in, but the area I grew up in just used distance with no set catchments. It all depends on the LA and sometimes different areas/schools with that.

Not necessarily, some LA require you to ask for a waiting list place, especially if you have already accepted the place offered - which you should do OP.

I know this - others are implying it can’t be true.

Your neighbour is wrong. There is equal preference so you would have been considered equally for the first choice amongst everyone else regardless whether you had put a second choice or not. Had you not put a second choice the council would have allocated you your nearest school that had places, it wouldn't have been your first choice as it would be full if you haven't got a place. Accepting a place at a school you don't want does not disadvantage you at your first choice, you can still appeal and go on the waiting list and give up the other school place if you are successful.

In London you get six choices. For my first child I couldn’t actually find six schools we stood a chance of getting into so only put 4. Our 4th was always undersubscribed though.
For my second child there would’ve had to be 90 siblings for her not to get a place so I only put one. If I’d been forced to put 6 I’d’ve just picked randomly.