What do I do about dd being yelled at by one of the school cooks?

[WigWamBam]

Dd didn't like any of the food she had been given for lunch (they aren't allowed to refuse to have food if they don't like either of the alternatives; they have to take one of the choices from every server) so didn't want to eat it. One of the play-leaders had tried to coax her into trying some, which dd had done, but she still didn't like it so the play-leader told her she could just eat her chips and pudding, and she would find her some fruit to have as well.

So far so good. But along comes one of the cooks who really lets rip, shouting at dd and telling her that she must eat all her food, it's a waste, it's disgraceful that she won't even touch it, that dd is being naughty for not eating the stuff. Meanwhile the waste bucket is full of fish fingers that other children have left. Dd was left in tears - although two of the play-leaders defended her against the cook.

Before anyone tells me that children exaggerate, both of the play-leaders have corroborated dd's version of events. The cook was yelling and screaming at my daughter, even in the face of my her tears.

This cook has been reported to the Head before about her attitude to both children and staff, and I feel that I should speak to the Head about what happened today, but there is one problem ... I work as a play-leader at the school too, so I have to work with this woman for at least one lunchtime every week.

Do I make a complaint and suffer the consequences? Or do I let it go, bearing in mind that dd goes up to Juniors in September? My gut feeling is that I should complain so that other children aren't spoken to in that way but (being purely selfish here) I don't want to make life unpleasant for myself.

Your thoughts?

LGJ, that's my concern too. I do think I over-react sometimes - whether it's because dd is an only child I don't know.

I don't think going to the governors is a good idea ... dh is one of them and it could probably be seen as him abusing the position. I suppose it depends on what the head comes up with as to whether it goes any further though.

Why don't I want her sacked? Actually, I don't know why. I can't think of one good reason why - apart from the fact it doesn't feel right to want to do that to anyone else.

WWB just think of the number of children you will be sparing from further terror.........

I remember this exact situation from my own schooldays. This was in the days when parents did not interfere at school.

In the end, having suffered for several years, I took matters in my own hands. I collected two or three friends and we basically started a shouting riot outside the dining hall. Got hauled to the headteacher as punishment, stated our case, pointed out that even the tiniest children were being intimidated. He listened. Things improved. And I heard from my younger brothers that they were warned by the dinner ladies to stay clear of those thugs in Year 6.

Nowadays I do wonder why I couldn't have gone straight to the head without the shouting and stomping. But I suppose 11-year-olds don't know very much about how the world works.

I am a little taken aback to see that my dd, though very intelligent and able to recognise injustice when she sees it, never speaks out against it, even to protect other people. She has been taught all her life (at school, not by me!) that talking back at a member of staff is naughty, regardless of circumstances.

I would definitely complain. Head doesn't have to sack her, just have a quiet word.

I would never have dreamed of telling anyone about stuff like this when I was at school - we were all terrified of the Head. Thank goodness dd's Head is more approachable! I can understand children being taught not to answer back to adults in positions of authority. But they ought to feel that they can talk to the teaching staff about things like this and feel that they are being listened to.

I spoke to the Head this morning, who claims never to have had any complaints about any of the cooks before. Which I know to be untrue, but I suppose she isn't going to come out and tell me about other complaints. She suggests that the cook might have been trying to back up the play-leader who was trying to encourage my dd to eat her fish fingers, but the play-leader had already told my daughter that she could leave what she didn't like as long as she ate the rest.

I got a lot of stuff about how six year olds don't always give the whole story; I know they don't but they don't always have two play-leaders backing them up. She was also sceptical about the cook being in the dining hall in the first place because they are usually behind the hatch or in the kitchen. I did point out that one of the cooks comes out every ten minutes or so to take dirty trays and cutlery away, empty the waste bucket and put fresh trays of salad on the salad cart, so there is every chance that this particular cook was out in the dining hall.

She did agree that if it is true then it's not acceptable and she is going to have "a discreet word" with the head cook, but I got the impression that she wasn't taking me seriously. She has never seen the cooks in the dining room, it is not their place to speak to the children so she can't see why they would, she thinks that the cooks would be too busy doing their own job to come into the dining hall causing trouble.

I am going to ask the other play-leaders who were involved if they are prepared to speak both to our supervisor and to the Head about it. I am also planning to ask for a meeting with all of the play-leaders and the Head to raise general concerns about this woman rather than just this one particular one.

I also found out this morning that, despite being told that the Head had dealt with the punching incident, she knew nothing about it. So I am a bit pissed off with my supervisor, who assured me that it had been dealt with!

Have replied on FB WWB x

Off to work soon, assume you probably are too . Good luck when you go in today.

Now I'm angry. And I know no-one's listening but I'm going to rant anyway!

The head has passed the buck. She thinks the children's mentor, my supervisor, is the person who should deal with it. My supervisor is lovely but soft as poo and not one for confrontation.

She has spoken to both the other play-leaders, who have corroborated my daughter's version of events. She is going to speak to the head cook "because X responds better to that than to being spoken to by the head teacher".

When I asked what she meant by responding better, I was told that this cook has had several complaints made by parents (despite the head denying any knowledge of any problems) and whenever the head has spoken to her it has made things worse. She already has one written warning, according to my supervisor, and they don't think it will help to have the head on her case again.

I now have to wait until Monday to find out what the head cook's response was.

I'm spitting feathers. I was so tempted to go down to the kitchen and deal with it myself ... luckily common sense prevailed!

Well why can't you go and deal with it yourself? You could just have a quite word with her and say that you felt she might have been a little over zealous with her efforts to encourage your child to eat and if she did it again you would be making an official written report about her.
C'mon WWB she is only a grumpy old child bully, I'm sure you can handle her without losing it or allowing her to intimidate you.

If a talk from the Head makes her worse then all the more reason for this woman to go! Why are they pandering to her in this way? If she has already had one written warning, then they shouldn't be worrying about how she will respond but rather looking at discipline procedures.

Yes. Complain. We must show our children we are there for them even when they are at school. We must let them know they are not powerless urchins who must put up with humiliation from the people above them.

Sorry if that's extreme. You've touched a nerve as I have a situation going on at the moment in active convos.

I am waiting to talk to the head. I too was reluctant to take action and rock the boat, but can't, in all concience, let it lie.

It sounds like everyone is tip-toeing around this woman. No doubt because of her reputation and past performance. Disgraceful.

Complain, this is for the childrens sake. Head sounds spineless and useless - I would challenge her on this and go above her if necessary. People who treat children this way should not be working with children! Good Luck.

What about the punch incident? That ought to be documented. What if your dd had been ill/concussed as a result?

Ds1 had a boy like the one you mentioned in his class. He got away with everything for years until eventually, in year 6, he seriously injured another child who needed hospital treatment. He should have been stopped well before it got to that stage.

I can't deal with it myself because I would be acting as a parent not a member of staff, and support staff like play leaders and cooks are not allowed to discuss things which happen within school with a parent. She is within her rights not to speak to me as a parent, and I can't approach her as a member of staff because I did not witness the incident.

They tip-toe around everyone, BeauLocks. Even the children. The boy who punched my daughter would have been excluded months ago if he had been at a school where they didn't tip-toe around everyone.

The punch was put in the accident book; I made sure of that at the time. I took her home because I wanted to keep an eye on her - she was feeling sick and rather unwell, hardly suprisingly.

There are no sanctions we can use against children like the boy who hit her. He won't listen to anyone, even the head. He had spent the last two weeks in her office at lunchtime, was allowed out to play yesterday and promptly attacked a playleader who told him not to swear, before coming back into the building and belting my daughter.

Bloody hell WWB - what a nightmare.

Blimey WWB, sounds awful.

I think you should write a letter of complaint to the HT about both incidents. I would expect to have been called asap about the punching. Was dd given any first aid or anything?

WWB - I would put your complaint in writing to the Head, making note of your verbal conversation with her, and noting that she was reluctant to speak to the cook herself.

Ask to see a copy of the school's anti-bullying policy.

Give the Head a deadline to respond to you in writing with regard to the outcome of the meeting with the Head Cook - and ask her what procedures will be put in place to ensure the children of the school are safe from intimidation by this woman in future.

Copy the letter to the Chair of Governors.

If the school has a reputation for tip-toeing round issues like these, I think the best way to deal with them is formally, in writing, so the issues can't be pushed under the carpet.

Maybe get your DH to sign the letter, so you don't feel there is an issue with your dual role as a parent and member of staff.

Mercy - I had to send dd back for first aid (I was working in the playground yesterday). She had been to first aid but had been told that she was fine and to come and play. By the time she came out and I saw her, she had a red mark and was starting to bruise so I sent her back in and she was treated and put in the accident book.

Humphrey - I think I am going to put it down in writing as you suggest, and copy to the Governors. I can't really get dh to sign it as he's on the board of Governors so might have a vested interest.

The worrying thing is that this is all happening in a good school ... heaven only knows what the less good schools are like.

WWB - my DH was on the board of governors when we had HUGE problems with the school.
He just left the room when the letter was read out and the issue discussed.

Well, I've spoken to dh and he won't be sending a letter with his name on it because he doesn't agree that the Governors should be involved at this stage.

Quite when he thinks they should be involved is anyone's guess; if the head won't deal with it then who does?

Could you put it that her verbally abusive behaviour is making children and adults uncomfortable, and that his time, you are making a verbal complaint; but if it keeps happening you will be forced to put a complaint in writing to the governors - so could the Head have a quiet word with the cook and organise some retraining before it reaches that point?!

Sorry - I was a page behind on the previous message! Who is the cook's line manager? Employed by the school or a catering service? Complain and demand a written reply. It's not your issue whether she has had previous complaints surely - it is enough that she is not employed to discipline your child in any way. Which member of staff was on supervisory duty? He/she should have intervened.
The correct line of action is definitely line manager, Head, governors, LEA/catering service managers.

She is employed by the school. So I guess her line manager is the head cook, and above her the head teacher.

There were three play leaders supervising the children in the dining room, two of whom were involved and one of whom told the cook to back off. But of course the damage was done by that point.

I am writing to the head no matter what. I just have to decide whether to involve the Governors yet.