Sacrificing a good local primary school to get a place in a great secondary

[Aimme]

We have a lovely CofE primary school 10mins walk from home. Ticks all our boxes and can see DS1 being very happy there. However.... the secondary school options nearby are not great (appreciate a lot can change in the decade until we're going to be choosing secondary schools!)

We're practising catholics and have 2 amazing oversubscribed Catholic secondary schools within a 15min drive. I feel you can't really go wrong with most primary schools in the UK, however secondary seems a lot more daunting and I'd want DS1 to have as many doors open as possible to get the best secondary education available.

To get a place in one of these Catholic secondary schools, we would have to choose a Catholic primary feeder and the nearest is a 20min drive away where we currently do not know anyone. We have a few Catholic primary schools to choose from all about 20mins away, again they are all great schools but in very high demand so there's no guarantee we would even get a place.

Would you sacrifice being able to walk to school and having local village friends etc.. in the hope it will pay off at secondary?

No

I totally disagree that 'you can't go wrong with most primary schools in the UK'. There's a reason some are more sought after than others, same as secondary, and different types of schools suit different families and children. It's crucial to get their education off to a good start. On the flip side, it could be argued that a child who is well behaved and keen to learn will do just fine at any secondary. Granted 'fine' is not the same as being pushed and excelling, but I would still prioritise choosing the right primary for your family's circumstances at this stage, to get him off to the best start and give him every chance of academic success in the future.

You acknowledge that the local school seems right for your child now. That would be my priority right now as so much can change in the time between now and him requiring secondary provision.

As you say, you may not get into the Catholic primary schools anyway. A 20+ minute drive every day would be a real pita (taking into account school run traffic it's likely to be longer). There's so much to be said for walking to school and having local friends etc. It would be different if you weren't happy with the local primary on offer but, as you are, I would stick with it for now. A long commute every day can be totally draining for little ones (and you). It's not uncommon for Reception children to fall asleep on the drive home during long commutes, which totally messes their routine up. A grouchy overtired child is not what anyone wants. That definitely wouldn't be the best start to their education.

As an early years teacher I can’t emphasise how important those first few years at school are. We set the foundations for all future learning. I wouldn’t be worrying about secondary yet - I’d be thinking about their initial learning and giving them the best start!

Is the entry criteria for the secondary school admission based higher on attending a feeder school than it is on being catholic and actually attending church? Only DC's school gave points based on a feeder school but the higher points were on church attendance, and their 2nd choice would have given them a place automatically for being baptised Catholic. Even if so, this could change in the next 6 years.

Thank you so much for these really helpful replies.

'You can't go wrong with primary schools in the UK' I take that back - We're in a very fortunate position in our area where we have lots of very good primary schools but appreciate that may not be the case everywhere.

The Catholic secondarys only accept feeder school students. As far as I'm aware admissions don't take into account anything else (other than children in care etc..) The vast majority of the kids from the primary all move straight up to the secondary- a prospect I like; the students stay together from 5-18.

I went to a religious secondary and although I didn't appreciate it at the time I can now look back and see the benefit of what I percieve as being a stricter setting with lots a pastoral support and hardly any bulllying/ behaviour mananagment issues. That was 20+ yrs ago so yes times have changed and will continue to do so but I hear so much about how amazing these 2 secondary schools are and the pressure parents put themselves under to get their children in, I can't help but get sucked in.

You need to read the admissions criteria. Then you also need to be aware admissions criteria can be changed (with consultation) relatively quickly so could be different by the end of 7 years of primary school.

Personally I'd go local for primary, build a social network for your children that is close to home. Deal with secondary later.

As others have said, get on the website and read the admissions policy inside and out. Look at the priority order and see where you fit e.g. in our area priority is given to practising families in diocese (normally 2 x per month for 3 years but it varies) over any feeder schools followed by practising outside of diocese.

Whilst it's not the be all and end all, there are real benefits to being able to walk to school. We moved from our closest school (for good reasons) to one further away and I really miss the sense of community you get from walking to school, stopping by the swings with friends on the way home etc.

I agree with everything said above, also to add, staying with the same kids from 5-18 is not necessarily a plus- my eldest, whilst very happy at primary, was desperate to have a change, make new friends and move away from certain classmates, by the time secondary rolled around.

You need to understand the criteria. They can't say you have to attend the feeder. Its likely to be Practicing Catholics at feeder, Practicing Catholics, other children at feeder etc.

(Is this Nottingham by any chance?)

That's all correct - the secondarys say they accept children from non feeder schools if you're practising Catholic etc.. however they are so sought after looking at how places were allocated in previous years, they all go to the top 1-3 criteria which is children in care and practising catholics attending a feeder. Being our first child with no sibling already attending, we wouldn't currently stand a chance of getting a place in either of these schools if he didn't attend a feeder and I don't see that changing.

We're in Surrey. The state school in our catchment area is huge with mixed reviews, recently it's not had the best reputation.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Have a look what the entry requirements are for the catholic secondary schools. It is normally practising Catholics (after the looked after etc group) with the priests reference certificate then distance.
Quite a few of the kids my children were at secondary school with didn't go to catholic primary schools which could have been thought of as feeders (too distant, too small as one form entry, going through bad patch).

The Catholic secondarys only accept feeder school students.

As others have said, this is rubbish - unless you're talking about a designated grammar school (and with the proviso that the applicant has to be of the designated sex, for a single-sex school), all schools have to accept all applicants if there are places available. If there are more applicants than places, then the applicants must be ranked by a lawful set of oversubscription criteria, published each March for those entering the school in the September of the following calendar year. And Must attend a feeder school as a sole criterion is unlawful in at least two ways.

There is a difference between historically, the criterion under which the last applicant has been admitted is... and they only accept...

The birthrate has dropped 10-20% in some areas in the last ten years. This means (in our area) that schools where you needed to be within 0.5 miles for a reception place ten years ago now are not full.

Same with secondary - the current Y7/8/9 is a bulge. In ten years, the picture might be completely different. So the popular secondaries that are currently a catchment of 1.5 miles won't be anything like that when my 5 year old is applying.

I would (a) go for the local school, (b) check the fall in birth rates in your area, (c) reassess end of Y4, visit the secondaries then and check their entrance statistics, and see if you want to move to a feeder then.

For example, as I don't know which area you're in:

"From a peak in 2015, births in Epsom and Ewell continue to fall, reaching a low in 2023. This is the lowest birth rate in the borough since the start of the millennium. Since the peak in 2015, births have decreased by 22%, reaching a low of 744 in 2023."

That's 22% fewer kids applying to in each year group.

A lot can change for secondaries. The one we were in a feeder school for went from outstanding to good then to satisfactory now back to good. Meanwhile another secondary local to us went from satisfactory to outstanding and has stayed as outstanding. My children went to the outstanding one because we moved into their catchment area and edged our bets when Ds1 was in year 3 but kept them both in the outstanding primary they were in.

The feeder secondary is okay but as I had friends whose children attended there I heard from them about staff shortages, discipline out the window with them shutting down one of the playgrounds because they couldn't staff it.

I would apply to the Catholic primary as your first choice with the local on your doorstep school as a choice too. There is no disadvantage to putting the local one as maybe your 3rd choice. If the Catholic school first on your list has a place you would get in, if they are full then your application to the local primary will be based on their admissions criteria. Look at secondaries in around year 3 and look at potential in year admissions to the Catholic primary because there are always children leaving schools because people move.

As a person raised Catholic I thought it was normal to not know many people locally to you. I had a primary school 1 minute walk away but my Catholic primary was a 10 minute walk away. Everyone I played with went to the 1 minute away school. Closest Catholic child was a 40 minute walk from me.

I don’t know exactly where you live.

Our daughter attended the local primary school to us as there was no way she could get into the very popular smaller catholic primary as a feeder school.

We did move house and it was nearer the catholic secondary school - on the allocation day we didn’t get a place. Appealed and went on to waiting list (we 32) eventually we got a place from wait list.

It’s difficult but you could still get into the secondary school depending on allocation, might be worth looking at the numbers recently under what has been allocated distance wise under each section,

There are many years in primary school.

Saying that, I did make a similar decision.
We live in Wales and opted for welsh primary to keep secondary options open
However, it was a lovely school. They have to bus there though. It's 2 miles.

Schooling is like building a house … no use worrying about the wall colour if you don’t have a solid foundation…that’s schooling

The primary years are so important to create a solid base for learning, phonics, socialisation, enjoyment of learning etc etc worry about the base of the house before you worry about the colour of the walls

It’s a long time, as has been said, between now and year 6/7 and a positive start in primary can’t be over emphasised. You might decide to move in five years time, nearer to the secondary school, the school might become less desirable, or any one of a number of factors.

Don't under estimate the importance of local friendships at primary school. Play dates, after school activities, are all easier when you’re close by.

I would never compromise primary for secondary. Aside from the fact that you have no idea of your situation in ten years time, you can’t build on weak foundations. The early years are arguably the most important. A good secondary school is pointless if your child hasn’t mastered the basics. Focus on what is best for now; a local school which you can get to in an emergency quickly, where your child can make friends who live locally, where they will get a good education.

I'd start at the local primary and move in Y5/6 if you still wanted that secondary school.

Are you realistically going to get a place at a primary school that is a 20 minute drive away?

Unless these are private schools, you are not making a choice of school on the application form.

Each school has set admissions criteria and a number of pupils they will admit. Therefore, there will be a cut-off point for each school as, unless they are under-subscribed, they will not be able to admit every child who has the school listed on their application form.

Your DS will be above or below that cut-off point for each school. On the application form you are merely stating which school you would prefer should he be above the cut-off for more than one.