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HELP - Appeal Post Starting

49 replies

ShanksBest · 14/03/2025 08:35

Oh, how I wish I hadn't opened my mails in the middle of the night.

I'm new to this site and just registered with worry and post the rabbit hole I've just fallen down all night. In advance, all help/guidance is greatly appreciated. There were lots of appeal threads, but I couldn't easily find one with my circumstances.

In a nutshell, we have just relocated cities (UK) in Jan 2025. To move back 'home' for added support and long term planning (house purchase took longer than expected, child was due to start Sept 24), our first choice of school was full, so we start at another school mid Jan 2025, four weeks in, we receive an offer at our favoured school, duly accept and we start. Everyone's in a far happier place, and it's noticeable, due to family/friends, grandparents can now lend a hand as it's a suitable walking distance, the list goes on.

Late yesterday evening, we received an email that the offer had been made in error and it was being withdrawn (he's currently coming to the end of his third week). This all seems very wrong. What would be the ideal grounds to appeal and ensure my child stays at the school they are already attending? I'm assuming a clerical error as the person liasing throughout (offer, acceptance, withdrawal) has been the same name at the local authority.

As a child. When asked his preference this school or the last, it has always been an unequivocal, current school, and he dislikes the other one. So he's clearly found his space and is thriving most notably the aggression and his improved focus.

As parents, attending this school has helped us massively from a mental perspective. Due in no small part to the people we already knew and those we have got to know. This will only help with the current toddler and incoming baby.

Surely, a clerical error shouldn't be at the detriment of a child's success and family/parents' well-being?

OP posts:
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LIZS · 14/03/2025 13:59

How many are in the class/year now? You should be able to compare against the admission number(PAN) for 2024. Could it be that another child was on the waiting list and should have been offered a place ahead of yours? Not that that is your problem to solve.

pinkdelight · 14/03/2025 14:21

DC means dear/darling child/children. It's just mumsnet shorthand for your kid.

PAN is the admissions number for that year, the p is published I think. It's the number of kids they can take in one year for space, safety, staffing limits etc.

Mayflyoff · 14/03/2025 14:30

With reception it is likely that the class has gone over 30, which is the class size limit. Whilst it shouldn't happen, it definitely has done, at our local primary school at the request of the local authority. I thought that would mean they had to employ another teacher and split the classes, but that didn't happen.

prh47bridge · 14/03/2025 14:33

Mayflyoff · 14/03/2025 14:30

With reception it is likely that the class has gone over 30, which is the class size limit. Whilst it shouldn't happen, it definitely has done, at our local primary school at the request of the local authority. I thought that would mean they had to employ another teacher and split the classes, but that didn't happen.

They can go over the limit without needing to employ another teacher if the additional pupils are classed as excepted, which means they don't count towards the limit. This includes pupils admitted via appeals, people needing in-year places where there are no places available within a reasonable distance and a few other categories.

ShanksBest · 14/03/2025 14:55

Well I've had a response from the case manager, by the sounds of it she doesn't want to manage the case any longer.

I've asked if the below is likely to be today.

Response received:
Your email has been forwarded to the School Admissions Service Manager who will contact you in due course.

OP posts:
TickTockPolly · 14/03/2025 15:12

It sounds like either they believe you have made a fraudulent application (even if you have not) or they gave you a place in error which took the class up to 31 and are now pushing you to appeal to make them an excepted child (even though you shouldn’t have to).

Ask the school today how many are in the class. That is likely to be informative.

I would call and email the local authority again and outline that this situation is putting you under extreme stress and so you need someone to call you today or respond to you in detail by email. In particular, you need to know what error has occurred under the clause they gave you. How you proceeded will depend on whether it’s a clerical error at their end or perceived fraud in the application process.

BoleynMemories13 · 14/03/2025 17:29

Sorry you're going through this stress. It's totally unethical to withdraw a place after the child has started, unless the application was fraudulent. They've messed up, not you, and need to read their own rule book! I really hope it's sorted soon for you.

In cases of error, schools can go over PAN if necessary. If they deny someone a place and it's found to be an error, the appeal is won. This is the opposite. They offered it in error, you accepted in good faith and they realised too late. Therefore the appeal should be won and they have to go over PAN (which I'm guessing they are already having to do, since your son has already started). Admissions have messed up. You shouldn't need to provide evidence for why this school is right for your child. You just need to refer them to the part stating they cannot withdraw the offer after a child has started.

Good luck

ShanksBest · 18/03/2025 12:21

So we have a response

Mail Received

Dear Mr xxx,

Thank you for your recent emails.

Any place which becomes available is offered to an applicant from the waiting list. The waiting list is ranked in accordance with the authority’s oversubscription criteria. The reason for withdrawing xxx's (my child's) offer of the place at xxx Primary School was that another applicant on a higher priority than xxx (my child) on the waiting list should have been offered the place. xxx (my child) is ranked as a category 3 applicant. The applicant who should have been offered a place was wrongly categorised as a category 4 applicant rather than a category 2 applicant. The authority’s oversubscription criteria is as follows:

Oversubscription criteria

Quite often, there are not enough places at a school to satisfy every parent who wants to send their child there. This is what is meant when a school is oversubscribed. When schools are oversubscribed the admissions authority has to adopt criteria for deciding which children are to be offered the available places.

All children whose Education, Health and Care (EHC) Plan names a school, must be admitted to that school.

Xxx (council/LEA) is the Admission Authority for all community and voluntary controlled schools in xxx (borough).

Where the number of applications for a community or voluntary controlled school exceeds the number of places available at the relevant school, the following over-subscription criteria will apply:

Criteria 1. Looked after children and children who were previously looked after.
A looked after child is a child who is in the care of a local authority in England, or is being provided with accommodation by a local authority in England in the exercise of their social services functions.
Previously Looked After Children are children who were looked after but ceased to be so because they were adopted (or became subject to a child arrangements order or special guardianship order)* This includes children who have been in state care outside of England and ceased to be in state care as a result of being adopted. A child is regarded as having been in state care in a place outside of England if they were accommodated by a public authority, a religious organisation or any other provider of care whose sole purpose is to benefit society.
*Section 14A of the Children Act 1989 defines a ‘special guardianship order’ as an order appointing one or more individuals to be a child’s special guardian (or special guardians).

Criteria 2. Children who live in the catchment area of the requested school, who will have a sibling attending the requested primary, infant or partner junior school at the time of the applicant's proposed admission (This includes half/step/adopted/foster brothers or sisters, and any other children, who are living at the same address as part of the same family unit).

Criteria 3. Children who live in the catchment area of the requested school.

Criteria 4. Children, who live outside the catchment area of the requested school, with a sibling attending the requested primary, infant or partner junior school at the time of the applicant's proposed admission (This includes half/step/adopted/foster brothers or sisters, and any other children, who are living at the same address as part of the same family unit).

Criteria 5. Children who live nearest to the requested school, calculated in a direct straight line from the child's permanent place of residence to the school.

The distance from the home address will be calculated from the seed point of the property, which is defined by co-ordinates held in xxx’s Local Land and Property Gazetteer (BSxxxx), and are available for each individual property on request from Trafford’s School Admission Team.

For applicants resident outside xxx, the seed point data will be provided by the Home Authority. Royal Mail Postal Address Information may be used in some instances. The co-ordinates used for each school are held in Trafford’s School Admissions and Transfer system and are listed in the Directory of Primary Schools.

In the case of a child living in a block of flats, co-ordinates will be obtained in the same way.

If there are more applicants than can be accommodated at a school in criteria 1 to 5, places will be offered to those children in each criterion, whose place of residence is nearest to the school, as defined in criterion 5.

Where two or more applications cannot be otherwise separated, the final place will be determined through a random draw, conducted and scrutinised by persons independent from the School, and from the Children's Services Directorate.

You refer to clause 2.14 of the School Admissions Code which states:

"A school must not withdraw a place once a child has started at the school, except where that place was fraudulently obtained. In deciding whether to withdraw the place, the length of time that the child has been at the school must be taken into account. For example, it might be considered appropriate to withdraw the place if the child has been at the school for less than one term."

The place was not withdrawn by the Head and governing body of xxx Primary School. Instead, the offer of the place was withdrawn by xxx Local Authority in accordance with clause 2.13 of the School Admissions Code because we are the admission authority of xxx Primary School.

I apologise for the error which took place but I can assure you that the previous email was sent to you as soon as the caseworker had brought the matter to my attention and I advised her to withdraw off's (my child) offer of the place.

In relation to school admission matters, the official complaint process is an appeal to the independent appeals panel. Information on the appeals process and how to lodge an appeal is available on the xxx Council website: Primary school admission appeals

In the meantime, I have advised the caseworker to allocate xxx (my child) a place ar xxx Primary School.

Regards

xxxx

School Admissions Service Manager

OP posts:
ShanksBest · 18/03/2025 12:27

How I read the above email reply is that 2.13 applies to the local authority and 2.14 not so.

I've got the option to appeal, but I sense my reasoning (second post on this thread) will hold little weight. This is quite depressing 😕

For ease the two below

Withdrawing an offer or a place

2.13 An admission authority must not withdraw an offer unless it has been offered in error, a parent has not responded within a reasonable period of time, or it is established that the offer was obtained through a fraudulent or intentionally misleading application. Where the parent has not responded to the offer, the admission authority must give the parent a further opportunity to respond and explain that the offer may be withdrawn if they do not. Where an offer is withdrawn on the basis of misleading information, the application must be considered afresh, and a right of appeal offered if an offer is refused.

2.14 A school must not withdraw a place once a child has started at the school, except where that place was fraudulently obtained. In deciding whether to withdraw the place, the length of time that the child has been at the school must be taken into account. For example, it might be considered appropriate to withdraw the place if the child has been at the school for less than one term

OP posts:
SoftPlaySaturdays · 18/03/2025 12:32

Wow. You should definitely appeal, as they are not making a reasonable reading of the Admissions Code. I suspect an independent panel will agree that their reading is incorrect, as no reasonable person would think that the LEA can take away a place made in error for any time in the future...!

Definitely appeal.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2025 12:47

You should appeal. Forget about your reasons in your second post. The LA has got this completely wrong. The LA cannot withdraw the place. Only the school can do that. The LA is instructing the school to take away the place in a situation where the school cannot lawfully do so. Stick with the fact that the place has been withdrawn contrary to the Admissions Code.

If you need help, feel free to PM me. The LA must not get away with this.

skkyelark · 18/03/2025 13:01

Listen to @prh47bridge – they know what they're talking about!

As I understand it, if the LA had spotted the error quickly, and before your child started at the new school, then they could withdraw the 'offer' under 2.13. Once your child starts, however, the 'offer' becomes a 'place', and the school cannot withdraw the place under 2.14. It isn't the offer of a place anymore, it is a place in the school, he's on the roll, has an assigned teacher, coat peg, reading book, etc. – the LA cannot legally get around that by claiming they are doing it rather than the school.

SoftPlaySaturdays · 18/03/2025 13:10

So glad @prh47bridge is here with his support.

I think @skkyelark is correct as well - this is no longer an "offer of a place" as in 2.13, which could be withdrawn if there was an error, it is a "place" of a child who has now started, which cannot be withdrawn unless there is fraud. They are being willfully difficult if they are trying to read it differently.

I think an appeals panel will side with you instantly. Your child will have been there months!

MrsAvocet · 18/03/2025 13:34

I'm no expert, but surely the LA have handed you the answer on a plate here OP? They have admitted in writing that they have made a mistake and that thus that your application was not in any way fraudulent. You don't need to prove anything, they've told you that they're in the wrong. Therefore the "place can not be withdrawn unless the application was fraudulent" rule is surely very much in your favour.
And it clearly is "a place" not "an offer of" as your child is already attending the school.
Obviously the other child also has a right to a place as they have been the victim of an error too, but that is the LA'S problem to sort, not yours. They can't just manage their mistake by booting another innocent child out.
As I say, I'm no expert, but I like to think that I am a reasonably logical and well educated person and from the information posted I can only conclude that either the LA are incompetent or are deliberately misinforming you so that you "go quietly" and their problem is solved. Either way that is appalling. I hope you fight it and win - I can't see how any reasonable panel would side with the LA.

pinkdelight · 18/03/2025 13:42

It's madness that you have to go through the farce of an appeal when the fool (I'm being charitable) who sent this simply needs it spelling out how wrong they are and should retract it, apologise profusely and go away. But absolutely listen to @prh47bridge and don't be disheartened, you are completely in the right and it will be proven so in due course.

Jackiebrambles · 18/03/2025 13:45

I’m outraged by this! Please appeal. How dare they when this is their fault!! What a stress for you.

BoleynMemories13 · 18/03/2025 15:47

There's something very odd about this case. They have messed up, not you. It's unethical to withdraw the place now your child has started. No consideration for his wellbeing and mental health at all.

The fact the other child missed a place that was rightfully their's is an error they need to rectify, but they shouldn't be punishing your child for this. One of the only reasons schools are allowed to go over PAN is in the case of error. An error has occurred, therefore the only way to put it right is by going over PAN. It's not ideal, but far better than penalising an innocent party (either your child, by withdrawing their place, or the other child by withholding a place which should be their's.) Going over PAN is the only fair solution to rectify THEIR mistake.

You absolutely need to appeal and state the impact this will have on your child and family. They cannot mess a minor around like this. It's totally unethical. It's not like you were turning down and are appealing based on the fact you think it would be the best fit for your child (which would be rejected instantly), he actually attends this school now. He's settling and making friends. He's happy. This isn't a hypothetical school place, this IS his school. It's his life. They can't mess young children around like this.

Jellyjellyonaplate · 18/03/2025 19:59

Wow this is crazy. What's important is your child continues to attend pending the appeal hearing. They are completely in the wrong!

Jellyjellyonaplate · 22/03/2025 23:14

How's it going, OP?

ShanksBest · 27/03/2025 09:18

Morning all, thanks for all your replies and guidance and @prh47bridge for the review. I'll be submitting the appeal today. Wish us luck

OP posts:
skkyelark · 27/03/2025 09:40

Fingers crossed, @ShanksBest ! It should be an open and shut case, so hopefully you get a panel with at least a basic grasp of the rules!

MrsAvocet · 27/03/2025 10:26

Good luck @ShanksBest though you really shouldn't be in the position of needing luck.
I often read appeals threads and think "Oh that's tough but I can see the LA's point of view", but not with yours. It looks like an obvious breach of the admissions code and I can't see how the LA has a leg to stand on. I think it is absolutely outrageous that they are even making you appeal. Even though I don't know you I am furious on your behalf. Appeals panels are normal people, though obviously with expert knowledge and training so I really hope that they make a quick decision in your favour and that your DC's schooling continues uninterrupted.

prh47bridge · 27/03/2025 22:34

I think it is absolutely outrageous that they are even making you appeal

Agreed. They will basically be asking the appeal panel to endorse their unlawful behaviour. Occasionally a case gets under my skin, and I end up rehearsing what I would say to the appeal panel if I was presenting the case. This is one such case.

myrtleWilson · 06/04/2025 16:12

@ShanksBest Hi OP - just wondering how things were going?

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