I don't think my 4 year old will be ready for school - defer?

[August21yellowbaby]

My son will turn 4 in august and is due to start school in September.

His speech is perfect, has good manners and understands everything you say to him.

My concerns are

1. he's still in nappies, and I can not see him being out of them by September. He will wee on the potty if he's naked from the waist down but as soon as he has any pants if he has accidents. He will absolutely not poo on the potty or toilet. He will withhold his poo and cry for a nappy. He has always struggled with his bowels and is currently under a consultant regarding this.

2. he is a hitter. He hits out quite a lot, nursery did put him on a behaviour chart, but he seems to have stopped doing it at nursery recently but he does it at home a lot so I can't be sure if he would do this at school.

3. he has absolutely no interest in sitting at a table and colouring or writing. He just won't entertain it at all

We really would like him to start school in September as nursery bills are really hard to keep up with. But I just don't think he is ready. And with only 5 1/2 months to go I can't imagine much will change.

Nursery have said they don't allow children to stay past the age of 4 which I found crazy.

What do I do?:(

Can you delay until a January start instead?

What do you mean about the nursery not being able to take them beyond age 4 - presumably this isn’t an issue as your child wouldn’t be 5 until the next August?

6 months is quite a long time for a young kid. He might come on a lot in that time. What do nursery say about his development? Does he need some kind of assessment of needs (sorry if that's rude, not very knowledge about that!)?

I would enquire now about the process for deferring and when you need to decide by.

Join the Facebook group - flexible school admissions for summer borns. My daughter started reception at 5. There’s other kids in her class who also started at 5. It’s the best thing we’ve done for her. She’s thriving and confident.

Have you asked the nursery why he can’t stay on another year? The nursery my daughter attended for her additional year were at bit confused by funding. I contacted my LA and they confirmed funding would cover her until the January after she turned 5.

I don't think you need to make a decision until May do you? A lot can change. We were in the same position 2 years ago, especially with the potty training, but DS cracked it over Easter and we also met with the school to discuss his readiness. In the end, we sent him and didn't defer which was absolutely the right choice in our case as he loves school, is very ahead academically and has a lovely group of friends.

What council do you live in, OP?

From what you’ve said, it does sound like they’re not ready. It doesn’t seem like they’re ready to sit in a classroom environment and to pay attention to work etc.

I don't think reluctance to sit at a table at this stage should form part of your decision to defer. That's pretty much what Reception is for. Have you had any support from the health visitor with the hitting and the toileting though?

A lot can change between now and September, but it wouldn't hurt to at least get an understanding of the practicalities and implications of deferring:

Can you get a nursery or preschool place to cover the extra year if your current nursery won't?

Will your chosen school admit them a year later into Reception or would they place them in Year 1 (does happen)?

Sorry - but why isn’t he ready for school? What do the nursery say?

I'm a reception teacher.
Toileting - I'd put him in clothes and let him wet himself, get him involved in changing himself, using wipes etc. Help him see how much easier it is going to the toilet. Lots of reminders and lots of praise, treats for going.

Hitting - needs to be zero tolerance approach here. Explain you don't hit, you tell us if you're upset etc. if you hit you go for time in your room, on a spot etc and no tv/ipad whatever he likes. Repeat everytime he does this.

I get the impression he's in control here and you're feeling a bit helpless but you have to get back in control.

Drawing at a table I wouldn't worry about yet.

Like @1AngelicFruitCake says. It’s not his choice to toilet train. The Oh crap book is pretty helpful (it will tell you you’re doing it very late but has a lot of pointers). It took my son 1 week to be ok for urine but 3 months for poo at 2yrs 9mo, it was a lot of effort but I wanted him to go to school nursery school. Ask the HV for help.

I would defer. He really doesn’t sound ready. As a nursery teacher the potty training will probably come over the summer. But the hitting and the sitting down at a table sound like he would really benefit from another year. You want him to hit the ground running in Reception not be struggling to keep up. Also, they do a lot of phonics in Reception and if he misses the basics because he can’t sit and concentrate then he will struggle with Year 1 phonics and reading.

Also, on a population level outcomes for August borns are much worse than outcomes for September borns, why wouldn’t you defer! Being younger in the school year affects children forever.

6 months should be plenty of time to get him out of nappies.
There's no such thing as being "a hitter". You need to stamp that out ASAP and if you're taking a gentle approach then it's time to move onto something more serious.
Not wanting to sit at a table isn't a reason not to start school, I'm sure that's fairly common with 4 year old boys.

Please defer. Sad but the best option.

Defer.
But he is still young however the constipation, hitting, not sitting can be signs of sen (the constipation is common i think with add and witholding).
Mine didnt hit in nursery but had other issues. And potty trained at 3.5yo as strong willed.
But did start hitting and scratching and biting classmates in reception. 60 kids and hectic with free play and few adults. We are awaiting asd and adhd diagnosis , she is july born.
Basically an extra year can help to see if they are young or outside the norm.
And would help getting and support in place. School were very blaming even though these issues were in their care. For us the hitting was when a child annoyed her she would respond with hitting rather than speaking despite advanced speech. With me i dont think kids treated her badly and were rude so she didnt feel the need to hit etc.
Even now at 13 she still doesnt understand that she loses any argument if she hits.

Also she did stop during y1 svo if had started later it may not have impacted school at all. Plus you set un teachers and parents mind what the child is like. And we had the same teacher more than once at times so they still see her as that difficult child.

Another vote for you to join the flexible admissions for summer borns Facebook group for loads of good advice.
My August born child will start reception in September having just turned 5. She has come on sooo much the last few months and will start school ready to thrive, not just survive.
On a population level August borns do perform significantly worse than September born peers all the way through school.

Curious as to why you think it's sad to defer? Nothing sad about giving your child another year of play and then being set up to thrive at school.

Well it's a little sad it's going to cost op a fortune in nursery fees

I wouldn’t panic just yet.

Toileting - honestly, a lot of children struggle with this. DS wouldn’t poo in a potty or toilet for ages and he also wouldn’t tell me when he needed to go. I had read on here (and in that awful Oh Crap book, which I really regret reading and I don’t know why it’s been absorbed as the holy grail of toileting but anyway) that he was ready at three, in fact he was ready at two and it was essentially my terrible parenting skills that were the reason for the reticence in this area. As it turned out he started to volunteer when he needed the toilet just fine at about three and three quarters and finally, FINALLY ‘got it.’

If he’s stopped hitting at nursery he probably won’t at school. My DS occasionally hits me in frustration (and I don’t tolerate it and much firmness happens in response) but never at preschool, it’s a different environment altogether.

My DS is definitely a doer rather than a sitter but since turning four I’ve noticed he is more interested in craft and colouring than at two or three. He also enjoys things like sticker books and play dough.

I’m definitely not saying he is ready but just that the months leading up to and immediately after four are massive. I feel like DS has aged about three years in a few months and feel a bit daft I ever worried about him!

Type it was asd not add (obviously)

I’m in Scotland where deferral is very common. I would definitely defer if you feel it would benefit him. My dsd didn’t defer her son due to the cost of another year at nursery and she really regrets it. Things were made worse by him missing some school due to ill health in P1 but he’s now 12 and has never caught up.