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Do really bright early readers always stay ahead of the game?

141 replies

imaginaryfriend · 05/05/2008 21:12

I suddenly got curious as there seem to be quite a number of mums on MN who describe their children as reading chapter books before the age of 5.

Equally there seem to be a lot of people who say their child (often boys) are verys low readers in Reception but by Y1 / Y2 are reading anything / everything.

So ... do the early readers stay ahead of the others who are catching up? Does everyone end up on roughly the same level? Or do the early readers 'burn out' and start to slow down at some point?

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GooseyLoosey · 06/05/2008 10:17

I think being able to read early is probably an indication of intelligence, nothing more. There are other indicators and in some cases it may not be indicative of anything.

silverbirch · 06/05/2008 10:17

I always understood that >on average< a group of bright children would read earlier than a group of less able children ? but it doesn?t follow that all early readers are ultra bright nor that all ultra bright children read early.

singersgirl · 06/05/2008 10:20

Of course. Plenty of intelligent people don't read early. But all I'm saying is that in many cases, early reading is a sign of a general intelligence. And, in fact, unlike some posters, I don't personally know any really fluent early readers who were not generally rather intelligent. I have not seen any 'level out'.

Deciphering words is a type of decoding and is a specific, albeit narrow, subset of intelligence. You can have that specific subset of intelligence without having others and you can have other subsets without having that one.

My brother, self-taught reader and mathematician, was never an enthusiastic reader and I don't believe he's ever read a novel for pleasure in his life. Enthusiasm is a Good Thing, but I'm not sure it is necessarily important. He was able to find out what he wanted and needed to know and has applied his general intelligence in other ways - specifically, earning large sums of money. Whereas I still love reading and waste much of my life on Mumsnet.

wilbur · 06/05/2008 10:41

I think a lot can depend on how the parents handle the child's ability. My sister was super bright as a toddler and my parents got v over-excited, had her tested (this was 1960s New York and there were loads of trendy education ideas about, plus my mother was obsessed with education having been made to leave school at 15 by her dad ) sent her to a special nursery for clever kids, etc etc. The pressure, combined with a couple of school moves when we returned to the UK, was no good for sis and she gave up. Parent got in a education psychologist to find out why she hadn't yet found a cure for cancer or whatever they were expecting her to do. She failed all but 2 of her o-levels, and although she eventually became a mature student to study nursing, the whole thing meant she hated school throughout. I did the reverse - was slow to read and hopeless at writing and spelling, although I could do maths, but gradually got quite good and did well at school and went on to Uni, where I genuinely enjoyed the work as well as the partying.

I'm sure that some early readers and bright toddlers will go on to do really well academically (as long as they are not pushed into oblivion by loony parents), but there will be others who do not, and that is fine too.

leosdad · 06/05/2008 11:24

The early readers often have to wait for the others in their year group to catch up because of the rigidity of the system. There is often an upper limit on the type of books available in the infant classes so unless parents provide other books then it is chip and biff or horrid henry for the nth time. Child in dd's year 2 class has been bringing in reading books from home all this year including some of the longer harry potter books.

imaginaryfriend · 06/05/2008 11:24

I'm learning such a lot from these replies.

I totally agree with what someone said about the obsession with reading levels between the age of 5-6! People seem to be going mad over it at dd's school. Dd recently got moved up a level and one of her friend's mums approached me about it as though I'd committed a crime against her dd! She was going to speak to the teacher that evening.

I'm really learning from these replies to focus a lot more on dd's comprehension and enjoyment and think of reading as a long-term commitment rather than a short-term achievement.

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Janni · 06/05/2008 11:35

imaginaryfriend - I really hope you can see how sad and pathetic it is that these parents are so obsessed.

I hope their children have more sense.

The quickest way to make a child lose interest or confidence in something is for a parent to become obsessively concerned about it.

Reading should be a source of pleasure, and the early years at school should be a time of excitement and wonder about the world and about becoming one of the bigger children, NOT about feeding parental neurosis.

snorkle · 06/05/2008 11:44

I would think that if the early-reading child keeps their love of reading and devours lots of books all through childhood then that is certainly likely to help keep them ahead of the game. Equally though, a child that learns to read later and goes on to have a similar love of books will have pretty much the same advantage. Finally, a child that reads very young, but doesn't for whatever reason read very much as they get older isn't going to benefit much from having been early to start.

I suspect that an early reader is somewhat more likely than a later reader to have above average intelligence, but that 'staying ahead of the game' is determined not only by intelligence, but also largly by attitude to learning.

Janni · 06/05/2008 11:48

Oh God, I apologise for my last post , it just truly is one of my biggest bugbears, but I expressed it far too stridently.

Enid · 06/05/2008 11:50

yse I think they do

imaginaryfriend · 06/05/2008 12:15

Enid - expand?

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southeastastra · 06/05/2008 12:34

my ds(6) just about reads now and he's in year two.

i'd make myself paranoid if i compared him to everyone else at the same age. i guess he's more artistic than academic and i can live with that. bloody SATs and NC.

imaginaryfriend · 06/05/2008 12:37

Hi SEA! I'm absolutely amazed, to be honest, how heated some mums get about their child's reading level. I have no recollection of my mum caring about things like that. I think she was more bothered as to whether or not I'd eaten my lunch.

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squilly · 06/05/2008 12:38

My DD read early (or averagely according to this thread...she was 4.5) and we thought we had a genius in the family (oh the arrogance of us!) and she'd memorised loads of books when she was 2-3 so we really thought we'd hit the intellectual paydirt.

Of course, it was ego-stroking, nothing better to think about, nonsense! She's now 7yo and, thanks to common sense on her part and, I like to believe, a lack of pressure on our parts, she is now a lovely, bright, but definitely not gifted youngster. She usually does well in her tests and reports, but I don't really think she's any brighter than most 7yos.

I explained to her that she is a smart girl. Yes she could read before some of the other children, but that doesn't make her better than them and she mustn't rub other people's noses in it.

I explained she couldn't necessarily run as fast as some of them, or paint as well as some of them. That wasn't because she was rubbish and they were great, it was because she spent more time doing the things she was good at.

I told her she had as much chance of being good at painting, running, whatever she wanted, but some things she would have to work at and try really hard. That's what the rest of the class would be doing to catch up with her reading level. And sure enough that's what happened.

My dd was lucky that reading came easily to her and writing too, but that doesn't mean she'll automatically be o.k. for the rest of her school life. School means having to work hard sometimes at things you're not naturally good at and that's the most important thing she can learn.

Like good looks, inherent quickness with a subject can fade away...you have to keep working at something to stay good at it. I read newspapers when I was 5 and stuff just came too easy to me in the early days at school. I can still pass exams without much effort, but it's no good if it makes you lazy...which it does. Like with Aesops Fable, slow and steady really can win the race.

I do believe, however, that kids are held back at school by a lack of reading skills. I help out some Y6 kids who've got reading issues and they are so bright and clever, but they worry more about school and are much less likely to enjoy the whole school experience. That's not mentioning the practical difficulties of facing time restricted exams and having to write what you mean on test papers.

IMO if you think your child is struggling with reading and you are worried, push the school for whatever extra help you can get and start looking at different literacy books.

I've just started on The Reading Remedy which is a really good book that addresses how to turn your child into a reader. It's Amercian, so it links to an American phonics reading system, but it still has some very sensible things to say about slow readers and their inability to decipher text. Once a child reaches y5/6 it is so much harder to turn them around with reading and they are certainly more likely to fail academically, which can be sould destroying for everyone involved.

PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt · 06/05/2008 12:41

I could read at 2, read Tolkien at 7.

Did I stay ahead of agme? erm, well yes and no.

Literacy wise yes- even at Uni my essays are structurally perfect, picky Lecturer cannot find fault.

But its just part of a whole spectrum and my maths ability is v poor, so i got placed in lower sets for that.

but overall its been a bonus, and i do find it hard to cope with the older ds's being dyslexic as my love of books is massive and they just dont share it at all (dh is dyslexic too, but took up reading last year which is fab)

apologies for one handed typing! hungry baby

squilly · 06/05/2008 12:42

Sorry...the comment about being able to pass exams making you lazy isn't a sweeping generalisation...it's just what it did to me. It made me lazy. See...great at reading at 5, crap at typing at 40+!

PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt · 06/05/2008 12:44

squilly has had ame effect on me- i could do a lot better grades wise if i was facing a bigger challenge (pre-baby, these days getting to school is enough of a puzzle!)

squilly · 06/05/2008 12:46

That must be so frustrating peachy. Have you got any tips for reading with dyslexic boys?

I've got 2 to work with this term and probably another 2 for next and I feel like I need all the help I can get!

southeastastra · 06/05/2008 12:46

my mum didn't worry either! but i guess they didn't have the dreaded SATs in those days . of course i'd be worried if he wasn't catching up now.

aintnomountainhighenough · 06/05/2008 12:54

I do agree that some parents go mad about the level. However for me I want to see that my DD is progressing and being exposed to more words and interesting texts. This only seems to happen when they move through the books although I am unhappy with the old ORT scheme the school use. There is no doubt that seeing your child learn to read is very rewarding and I do think that it is good for children to go 'up a level' when they achieve so they can see they are progressing. It gives them something to strive for and proves that if they work hard and try hard they will improve.

PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt · 06/05/2008 12:55

Squilly ds1 is verys evere and abrely able tor ead at ll (4th centile, he's 8)- ds2 is doing better though, and we thinkn its just time that did it. we're very positive about books- first thing we do when we go away is find a bookshop and let them have whatever they want (always fish relayed for ds2), and we try and associate nice things withr eading- so when we kitted out the dining room for them we called it the reading room rather than playroom, and they asked for agrden seating so we are getting some and keep saying how wonderful it will be to be able to go there and read in the summer....

ds1 goes to a threrapy cnetre for his ASD and they recommend memory games for dyslexic kids, as apaprently that helps them to organise their minds more.

PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt · 06/05/2008 12:56

Sorry- should wait until baby asleep before I type!

imaginaryfriend · 06/05/2008 13:05

anmhe I totally agree with you, it's good for them to progress at their natural pace, not being either held back or pushed too hard.

Have you bought your dd some other reading schemes to read outside of school? My dd seems to only do ORT during guided reading at school. The books she brings home are from a variety of different schemes. They are all meant to be the same level but there's huge variation in how difficult they are. I think it's helped her enormously though to encounter different vocabularies and styles of book.

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aintnomountainhighenough · 06/05/2008 13:34

We have had a few books from other schemes - snapdragons and I know they do have some Songbirds but we have done these. However they mainly stick to one scheme and that is the old Biff and Chip ORT books. We do get lots of books from the library and I find these much better and more interesting. However it is trying to fit these in with the books from school! Bearing in mind we have to read every book in the scheme arrghhh! The key thing I don't like about the ORT books is that they don't support phonics and therefore do not re-inforce and help the childrens learning.

Frankly I am not surprised that so many children are struggling with reading. My DD has only been at school since September but is crystal clear that unless you do a lot of work at home with them they will not only progress very slowly but will just not get a broad enough selection of reading material.

Quattrocento · 06/05/2008 13:37

Nope

Glad you didn't put this in G&T IF.