State primary and private secondary

[coffeeandsleep]

Hi,

I’m thinking about doing state primary and grammar/private secondary. Is this a common route to take?

I’ve mentioned it to a couple of people and they seem to think being at a state primary you would be at a disadvantage when applying for private secondary… because private primaries are often feeder schools into private secondary.

Due to finances, I would rather not pay for fees at primary level and if choosing private, think it’s probably better to prioritise secondary?

I’m guessing you would need to supplement with tutoring for the 11+?

anyone who can advise on their experience please?

It will totally depend on what schools you are aiming for in secondary as well as the quality of local state school options. It is very very common to only go private in secondary, loads of people do so successfully. I wouldn’t say those that move from state are inherently disadvantaged academically if they are in a good state primary and have good parental input, though depending on how selective the school is there may be a need for more or less prep in the years leading up to the 11+. A feeder prep school will do some 11+ prep as part of the school day, while a state school obviously will not. There will be some at prep who also get loads of tutoring - not what I would choose for my child, but if you are angling for an ultra selective then that is what you are competing against for entry.

I agree it does depend on the schools.
We did State primary and Private secondary as the Primary was great but the Secondary not so much.
Both my DC benefitted from a wider range of friends and a much bigger school at Primary and were a lot more streetwise than many of their peers who had been at The private school since age 3. Plus when it was time to go to a large, pretty diverse 6th form college (no 6th form at their school) they adapted really well while some of their friends didn't
There was no knowledge gap for them apart from in sports but both caught up pretty quickly
Of course we saved a fortune as well
Right decision for us but the Private school is non selective and not just fed by The Prep, in fact its around 50/50 between kids who were at the Prep and ones who weren't I believe.

It's a fairly common route.

A lot depends on what sort of private secondary you are looking at.

If their main intake is at 11 and you are looking at the 11+ then this is doable but you'd need either a good primary or an adequate primary and lots of extra tuition.

If you are looking towards eg a boarding school that starts at 13 then they'd need to sit the common entrance exam at age 13 and often a pre-test at age11. State primary won't prepare well enough for this - the prep schools that feed these schools go from age 8 to 13 and begin MFL, Latin, separate subjects etc from year 5.

My DD is at our lovely village (one form entry so pretty small) primary and is due to join a private secondary in September. It’s “gently selective” and we didn’t do any prep for the entrance assessments other than on exam technique. She’s not a top of the class super academic child either. I’m assuming they saw potential and she is “the right fit”. Obviously as pp said some will have done lots of prep, especially if applying for a mix of selective and non selective schools so I’d suggest checking out each of your preferred schools’ entrance requirements, find out how selective they are and go from there. I’d say if your child is already good academically and you’re not aiming for a super selective then preparation should mostly be focused on exam technique as with my DD this was the first formal exam she’d ever taken so that was the stressful part, not the contents of each test!

Lots of people do state primary + indy secondary and use the primary years to save up. As othes have said, it depends on the extent of how selective the secondary schools are, and quality of local state + indy schools.
We did it and it has worked out well so far (currently Yr 8) DD was behind in sports but not academic subjects and has just been awarded academic scholarship for Yrs 9-11.

Also to add, check what they’re actually going to sit entrance tests in… maths, English, reason, comprehension, creative writing paper? Any or all of these will help you decide if you need to extra prep.

We did exactly that. No 11+ prep at primary (comprehensive area), but DC was working at greater depth in all areas. We supplemented with Bond book practice once a week in the year before the test, just to make sure all aspects of the test had been covered in time for the test.

We found when y7 started that the children from state often had a more thorough - if narrower - understanding of maths due to having done SATS prep which the independents hadn’t done.

Thanks everyone.

@Burntsausages in answer to your question, the private option I have in mind is part of this assessment approach: http://london11plus.co.uk

seems like there will be some testing around problem solving, critical thought etc and then an interview.

I will check what the assessment will be for the grammar option too.

Ah ok so state primaries won’t have done any prep in regards to verbal and non reasoning whereas preps will hdve I corporates this into their normal school days from yr4 or so (I stand to be corrected on this though!) so you’ll definitely want to prep these areas and fill any knowledge gaps in maths and English if you think they have any after looking at the familiarisation materials.

You are correct but assume that the Private Secondary is selective, not all are

Great - thank you!

I think people overestimate the amount of prep needed for the 11 plus. The grammar schools usually use non verbal and verbal reasoning so they do need to be familiar with the techniques but I don’t think these are so widely used in the private sector anyway.

My dd got a bursary to a highly selective girls school (usually top 10/20 in the league tables), and was at a primary school in special measures in a very deprived area. She’s just an ordinary, bright girl. We didn’t do any prep as the main papers (Maths and English) were based on key stage 2 work and she didn’t come across anything that stumped her. That school did set a verbal reasoning paper too, but they said it was only used to decide borderline cases. I knew that it dd was borderline, she wouldn’t get a bursary anyway so there was no point preparing for that!

There were lots of girls from prep schools when she got there but they weren’t ahead in Maths or English - the main advantage they had seemed to be in sports like netball and hockey!

Sorry, just seen that there is verbal /non verbal reasoning - we prepared my son for the grammar school tests and these ones were tricky at first, but they just need a bit of practice. We started tutoring him in June for the Sept exam and he got through.

Thanks @crazycrofter sounds like it’s the sports that could be more of a ‘gap’ rather than the other subjects.

I went to an academically selective private secondary school, but it was different from your situation in that the junior school pupils could go straight through to senior and did not have to take the entrance exam. In practice that meant that if anything those who had been at state schools tended to be ahead, considering that they had all just passed the entrance at age 11 while some of those who had flowed straight through would not have.

Round here independent schools are often chosen if a child fails to achieve a place at grammar so it is common to come from both state primaries and private ones that stop at year 6 and prep for grammar. They are only lightly selective or not selective at all. I imagine it would be easy for a child from a good state primary with involved parents to fit in at year 7. For the 13+ ones kids go to the last two years of the attached prep first.

Having taught at three private secondary schools, academically it makes very little difference. Actually, sometimes Year 7s who have come from good state primaries have the edge over those coming up from prep schools.

Socially, though, it does make a difference if half of the cohort are coming up from the same prep school. Also I have found those coming up from private schools can still have more of a joy about learning that can be squeezed out of Year 6 children from state primaries who arrive very burnt out from all the SATS prep.

I think the ideal solution, all other things being equal, would be to move them to private prep schools around Year 4 or 5.

That’s something you could easily make up with clubs.

My view has always been to prioritise primary over secondary.

It’s in primary that they establish good learning habits, curiosity, ambition and focus.

If you have a child that is self-motivated and can study independently, they will they thrive at any school (though you may want to supplement with tutoring)

I'm the opposite, we do primary really well in this country whereas secondary is where issues often occur. It is a complete misnomer to say a bright child will do well anywhere. If they are in classes with 30+ pupils and the teacher spends the majority of the lesson managing behaviour rather than teaching, or it isn't 'cool' to do well then a bright child may do OK but they probably won't reach their potential.

I specifically didn’t say a bright child - I said a child who had learnt to study independently and was self-motivated.

Yet that is easily undone with a cohort of kids who don't care about their education.
Not every school will suit every child and getting a good state school is a postcode lottery.

The London consortium are notoriously difficult to get into.
For entry into FH’s prep students will have had tutors and extras added to their profile (music LAMBDA) etc.
Be aware of the number of applicants, places and scholarship options.
Get a tutor even if only weekly.,