streaming

[debs40]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help with advice or share their experiences.

My eldest son is in a reception class and will go to Year 1 in September.It is a very large infants school (240 pupils) but he seems happy where he is although, not uncommonly, his teacher seems to be very stressed and does not really appreciate talking through concerns.

I have heard that the children will be streamed when they go into Year 1 and this, frankly, horrifies me. I think they are far too young for that. I raised this with his teacher and the question went down like a lead balloon. He was very hostile and told me, the children would be split on ?friendship? basis. He didn't want to talk about it further than that.

He then spoke to the Head who put a brief piece in the newsletter saying that the children would be split into groups with a mix of abilities, personalities etc.

I am still worried about the reaction I got when I asked this and I believe that there is probably more to this than meets the eye. The information initially came from someone who works in the school! Also, I don't understand why they are splitting up class groups if it is all to do with 'friendships'. I feel I'm being patronised and that no one is interested in discussing this further .

I am very active at the school and have always been really supportive of the teachers and staff so this is a rude awakening for me. I feel like I have asked something I shouldn?t have and that they have fallen at the first hurdle!

Do I have a right to this information? I know I can?t alter policy but I think it is patronising not to let parents know how their children are to be taught. What is the big secret?

I am inclined to insist on asking to see the Head (who is retiring this summer and is pretty ineffectual) but I don?t want to cause bad feeling.

Advice welcome!

Can I ask, in a nice way, why streaming hirrifies you?

Surely each child will gain more from being in a group with similar abilities, rather than being bored, or having information go over their head.

A petition went round in my DD's Year 1 when they announced they would split up very close friendships. I didn't sign it, because I know my DD had a rather 'lively' friendship with another girl - the girl's mum and me bothe agreed that separation would be a good thing.

Incidentally, the mum (v. nice woman btw) who initiated the petition admitted quite soon after that her petition was in hindsight a mistake as all the kids got on with the change just fine.

crikey, look at those typos....

but kids are streamed all the time - even if it's not spelled out as that - it's not a bad thing for any of them - they can be taught with other children along the same ability level and the teaching (ideally) would be tighter and more focused to that ability.

I think it's weird that kids stay in the same class group all the way through til year 6.

I don't see how it's patronizing to be honest. I think seeing the head won't give you any answers as you said. Maybe make an appointment to see the teacher - not at the end of the day when things or rushed - a proper appointment . Do you know anyone on the board of govenors who could shed some light?

I think it is very early in schooling to stream children. I know that Government targets and policy results in assessments and so-called 'personalised learning plans' and the like and, if done properly, I have no problems with those - as long as they ensure all have equal opportunities and any ability groups are fluid.

I am concerned that children streamed in to 1,2,3 classes for example may found those boundaries too fixed and there is also some evidence of a culture of negative expectation attached to some of the groups in Year 1.

I would just like them to explain their methods and thinking.

The streaming is extremely fluid, or should be: kids will move from group to group as appropriate.

And when one child might be almost a year younger than another in the same class, developmental level and readiness for learning certain things makes streaming helpful.

sorry: x-post

If they children don't know they are being streamed, then where is the harm?

DD thinks her table group changes every 1/2 term (or term, not too sure what it is) - oddly enough, she has routine issues and copes fine.

She is too little to realise that the tables change according to ability. In some ways I prefer it - she was miserable when her best friend went onto blue key words and she is still on white

Thanks Hana, I understand what you say but I suppose I don't perhaps have the same confidence in the teachers to carry out effective differentiated teaching and there is research which shows that streaming (as opposed to banding or ability grouping)can be negative.

I think if you ask a question and are dismissed with a silly answer, then that is partonising. I'm not used to having information witheld for no good reason.

The teacher in Y1 regularly re-streams the children according to their ability.

I would much prefer it rather than ds be taught something he couldnt grasp or be taught things that are too easy for him.

dont forget that at this age, their birthdays play a big part in this so someone could have a Sep birthday and another could have an Aug birthday.

that means that a whole year is between them.

there are 4 levels of learning in ds's class and ds is on level 2 which I am delighted with.

Hi Flame and Threadworm, I think you're right but what you are talking about is not streaming but grouping children by abilities which most primary schools will do. Groups are fluid and children assess and can move between tables depending on subjects and development.

Streaming is different as I understand it and is not generally used until later on.

This is a large infant school and there will be three year 1 classes. If streamed into classes (rather than tables etc), those boundaries can become rigid. Evidence demonstrates that children quickly perceive the differences and it can affect teacher's expectations.

Are you sure that the person you spoke to understands the difference?

then a hard one dabs40. I am a teacher and probably too defensive.....if the school has made a decision it's unlikely to be changed - but you're right. A proper explanation to all parents should be given - maybe a letter from the head to lay it out for all

I think that is the problem!! Now I just want to reassure myself but I feel like I have really upset the teacher by even asking.

"grouping" and "streaming" are interchangeable terms IME - I don't think that "streams" are necessarily and more inflexible than "groups".

I sympathise if you feel you are being fobbed off by the school but maybe your fears about same ability grouping are unfounded and may even be beneficial?

Thanks for all this. I agree with what you say. I suppose you continue to have those fears when you are in an environment where no one really wants to talk about these things!

To anyone, like Hana, who is a teacher, do you have any advice about the best and least confrontational way to raise this with the head? Perhaps as an issue of communication etc?

maybe there is a wider issue of poor communication within the school community

pta?
govenors?

does the school have a weekly newsletter?

I would go back to teacher and ask for an appointment - if they are hesitant about this, try a parent govenor? That's what they are there for,

I suspect the person who told you they would be "streamed" doesn't actually mean that - I agree with you that "streaming" means splitting into separate classes according to ability.

But I find it hard to imagine that they would really do that at Yr 1 - far more likely that they are planning to re-mix the classes (some schools like to do that to get a good mix of abilities and personalities, and break up difficult relationships) and then teach in more fluid ability groups.

I think I would raise it with the Head, since you want clarification of what his newsletter piece will mean in practice. You could also mention that someone had referred to streaming - he'll almost certainly reassure you that they don't plan to do that.

At my boys' two-form intake primary school they remain in the same mixed ability class throughout the school, but from the summer term of Y1 they stream across the two classes for literacy and numeracy ie the higher attaining 55% in one group and the lower attaining 45% in the other. Then one class teacher takes one group and one the other. Usually the teachers alternate which group they take by term.

The 'streams' are pretty fluid though and children move between them. They're also grouped within the streams.

I agree that streaming across three classes like this at this stage is wrong. Once children are put in classes they would be unlikely to move for the whole year. A lot can change during Year 1 and they may not be in appropriate groups by the end of the year.

I do not have a problem with ability grouping though and think that it is essential in Primary Schools.

I think that it is a pity, Debs, that you don't have much confidence in teachers' ability to differentiate work. Teachers are usually very good at this and have to plan effectively for all groups within their classes.

Many schools do not let parents know this early on in the school year which classes children will be in from September. This is because once it is announced loads of parents come in to complain and it wastes a lot of the schools time. I imagine you will be informed through the official channels when the school have time to deal with all the parents who think they know better.

If you think you have a right to know earlier than everyone else then you need to make an appointment with the head and express your concerns. I would do this with the head not the class teacher as it is a whole school issue not a class one. But I certainly wouldn't make comments about teachers ability to differentiate unless you have particular complaint about a specific teacher.

This will happen at the school DD is about to attend. I grilled the head and the reception teacher about it and they were reluctant to use the term "streams" although they said factors like shy/extrovert and young 4/nearly 5 were taken into account in each class. Groups were given names such as "oranges" "bananas" etc so there was no obvious hierarchy.
I mentioned DD could already read and write and they said "we are perfectly used to that" and there was another mother and her DD there too and she was able to write and was chatty and the teacher said that to begin with it was much easier if the children were with those "of a similar level" which also included social ability.
They also said that the groups were pretty fluid and the classes were mixed up again as they moved into year 1.
They also said that in year 2 the English, Maths and IT groups were definitely split ona bility level as it was fairer and if children were capable of working on their own they let them. My DD is very independent and I felt this school was best for her. I visited another school which was also good but I felt it would not be up to my DD's personality, however, there were some lovely children there but they all seemed a bit too quiet for my liking.
My DD is quite strident and I'd hate to think she was in agroup running roughshod over them, she needs a strong peer group. I told the teacher this and she said "don't worry, we don't let them get intimidated and we will make sure the louder ones have an outlet" which made me feel a lot better.

I thought it was a good idea, at my school my best friend was in another class and we only saw each other out of school, I reckon if this system had run in my school we would at least have had some lessons together.

If you are very worried, get clarification, I thought this school seemed to have a good realsitic idea of children's personalities and even the school secretary said "Oh, a September girl, she'll be all right then!"

Wow, thanks so much everyone for these really helpful responses!

Joggingalong - I don't want to sound like someone who is 'down on teachers' I'm not. I fully support the hard work they do in class. the trouble is that this school has had its problems and that the experience from Year 1 and 2 parents indicates something of a culture of expectations about some children which undermines the confidence I want to have in teachers' ability to differentiate work

I think it is a little unfair to suggest that I think I have a right to information about class groupings earlier than everyone else. Firstly, this has never been about specific details such as who will be in what class etc. It is about the practice of grouping. I have already been told two different things by the school. Secondly, it is about good communication. I raised this with the school because I didn't want this to be a rumour which got out of hand. The school have shown no willingness to expand upon their policy other than to deny streaming. There is no suggestion that we will ever get any more detail at any point.

Steaming happens right from reception within the classroom, tables are generally grouped according to ability and ALL children IMHO benefit as their small group session with the teacher is then pitched at the right level for their current ability.

Try to think of it as tailoring the education to your child's needs rather than a bad thing.

or even stReaming happens right from..... !

I think (without wishing to put words into her mouth!) that debs is concerned that the school intend to do what used to happen in some high schools, where a class was made the "top stream" - all the highest ability children were in that class, and they had opportunities which were not given to other classes. It was then not possible for a "late-bloomer" to move into that class, and equally difficult for children who were in that class because of eg high ability in maths but only average in English. That's what I would define as "streaming" and it has been widely denounced as an educational practice.

What others are describing - teaching in ability groups - is quite different, and I think most parents are very happy for their children to be taught in these groups so long as there is the possibility to move between groups as abilities develop.

There's a separate issue here about how the school communicates with parents, and whether debs has inadvertently come across to the teacher and head as an awkward parent and how to move past that to deal best with this issue and the relationship with the school in general.