Mixed year classes vs not mixed

[Zoomom]

Wishing choosing a primary was more straightforward! Skip to last paragraph for my questions if you want to skip over my points for each school.

My catchment primary (3 min drive) is a town primary and has mixed years - Reception is not mixed but the rest of the years are grouped 1/2,3/4,5/6. It gets good reviews from parents. I toured the school and the head teacher seemed fantastic, knew all the kids and their needs on a seemingly personal level. The teachers seemed fun and the kids were well behaved and enthused. The grounds were fine. The mixed year classes all seemed to be at a 1:20 ratio. So they take in a class of 30 at reception and split them across 3 teachers in year 1. They aim to keep the same 10 kids together through primary. It’s “good”, but recently was outstanding ofsted. It has a woods and forest school as well as decent enough grounds. I have to say the kids also seemed very confident which is one of the supposed advantages of mixed years.

Out of catchment is a C of E village school that is a 10 min drive. It’s “outstanding” but not reviewed since 2014. Generally does have a good rep though. The head teacher wasn’t as enthralling as the other and I’m not sure why but the kids didn’t seem as energised (it was also a rainy day). But they were happy and behaved. It doesn’t have mixed years and there is one class per year. Ends up being a ratio of 1:28 so bigger ratio than mixed school. Has slightly better test scores on avg- also huge emphasis on books. Similar grounds as the other school but nicer setting in a lovely village (other one is in a seventies type housing estate.). The school also seems to offer better wraparound care which can be booked ad-hoc…. Which might be a big plus.

The catchment primary with mixed years would be a clear winner if not for the mixed years. They claim all the advantages of it and seem to have a good system in place to make sure kids have close friends and they have good ratios. I just find it abnormal (I’m actually from the US where a small elementary school is considered large here and mixed years would not be found in a mainstream school- so I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I tell my American family about mixed years).

Has anyone had good experience with mixed years or found it preferable to single age year groups? Any negative experiences? Should I just be opting for a school with single year approach if it’s an option- I don’t mind the drive?

Definitely the catchment primary... I can not emphasise enough how important being able to walk to and from school with friends is, we (me and the children) have made some of our best friendships this way.... we also have a core group who meet at the play area opposite school frequently. None of this would happen if we had to drive.
(We drove to an out of catchment nursery for a year, as there was no space in the nursery when we moved here, it just wasn't the same at all)

If the school has been teaching in mixed year groups for a few years, they should have plenty of experience of making it work, so don't let it put you off.

Also please consider not driving for a 3 minute journey!

Thanks for the replies!

Totally get the advantages of going with the nearest school for community and absolutely agree! I’d like to walk but I’m on this housing estate where we would need to cross a main road and then navigate a path on another busy road to just get to the school. It would only take 15-20 min to walk but sadly no one walks to the school from where we are. If we do go with catchment school I’ll be lobbying our council to do something about this as it makes no sense- could be rectified with crossings, maintained pavements, and reduced speeds… but either way it’s nice to be in catchment.

Good point about mixed years- it does appear they have a good system down. It’s just me trying to wrap my head around it!

I was like you - in that I went to a standard primary with each class being a single year group (I think it would be considered a 3 form entry now) so when I looked round the school my DC now attend which has mixed classes I was skeptical & concerned. DH wasn't as it was similar to what he had attended.
In fact it has worked very well. The more able students can work alongside the older ones; & those who need more support receive it.
Our ratio is 1 teacher & 2 TAs in one class (YrR, Yr1 & Yr2 - 17 children) & 1 teacher & 2 TAs in the other (Yr3-6 - 31 children).
The mixed classes allow the children to get to know & befriend children in others years - something I never did. All the children know one another & play across the year groups at playtime, go on whole school trips etc.
the only downside can be fewer kids can mean not finding your tribe but my DS who's in Yr2 is very good friends with a Yr6 & Yr4 as they have similar interests. DD has friends in the years above & below her.

I don't think it really matters. All of the other things you mention are more important and the catchment school seems to perform better on every other measure.

Most of the state schools near me are mixed. I have friends who send their kids to most of them and they all had concerns about the mixing. Eg younger kids not being prioritised in learning, older kids not receiving enough attention, younger kids being forced to play sports (and changing for swimming) with older kids. The younger and older kids don’t really socialise with each other.

Mixed years make me nervous for the kids at either end of the ability scale. One year it will be perfect for them then the next terrible. I know kids at a school like that and seeing kids a year younger doing better than you isn't nice.

So their PAN is 30 yet they have 3 teachers to teach 60 kids? I'd be really interested to see how they afford that with school budgets so tight. My school can barely afford 1 teacher and 1 TA per 30 kids and we're one of the lucky schools who still have general TAs. Fair play to that head if they can get it to work!

Agree with PP - I can't see how they make 1:20 ratios work from a budget point of view and especially when they could be a straightforward 1FE school all the way through, it's making life more complicated for themselves.

You've missed a key point here. Which one would suit your child better?

Some children hate the outdoors. Struggle with mixed ages, and excel in larger groups and are more academic. Some thrive in the outdoors and need a lower ratio and would enjoy older/younger friends. Ofsted should be disregarded a bit. Unless a really poor rating consistently.

I think it depends a lot on the child. Out of the two i'd choose the catchment school. But i have a child who is outdoors 80 percent of the day at nursery. Loves mud, children of different ages and needs smaller groups. Depends on your child.

The way you've described them to me suggests you prefer the catchment school.

please don’t drive for 3 mins, that is a very walkable distance.

check the ratios out, I would be surprised at a mixed class of 1:20 ratio.

You’re overthinking. Choose whichever is easiest for your routine. It’s really nice to go to the nearest school and therefore have friends who live nearby.

Mixed classes worked very well for my kids - they don't tend to find transitions easy, so having 2 years in the same classroom with the same teacher really let them build confidence, and it supported DD1 who had become convinced she was crap at maths when she moved to the school and suddenly realised she could do the maths work of the year above relatively easily!

As long as the planning is well set up with a two year cycle for the non-core subjects (so they might do the Egyptians on year 1, Aztecs on year 2 and then loop back around to cover both topics in their time in the class) - I have no issues with mixed classes.

Not sure about mixing 5 and 6 due to the sats dominating a lot of year 6.

My child was in mixed classes most of the time. It worked for him as he was young in his year group but the way the classes mixed, he ended up in the middle.

I dont think I would travel further to avoid mixed classes. I dont think they are ideal but every school has pros and cons and further travel would be more of a con for me than mixed year groups.

Rural schools often get extra funding for scarcity & lack of facilities- ours does.
It means one class has a teacher:pupil ratio of 1:17 plus 2 general TAs (not 1-2-1s) & the other has 1:29 plus 2 general TAs.
Yr6 can be taken off to a different room to focus on SATs prep & they offer breakfast revision in the run up.

I would take a mixed age class within walking distance over a single age class with a drive.

That is unlikely to apply here though because they have the option of being 1FE all the way through, their apparent structure means they are paying for an extra three teachers. That's huge and would blow the budget in most schools. That's why we are querying whether this is what their actual structure is. To be fair to OP, it doesn't look as though she's basing her decision on smaller class sizes but if it's a factor in her decision then it's worth checking her understanding is correct.

OP - you mention wrap around being better at the second one as has ad hoc places available, are you happy you can get the wrap around you need (if you need it) at first school?

@APurpleSquirrel My rural school gets absolutely no extra funding. We really struggle to maintain 1FE because really we only have enough kids for 6 classes rather than 7 but having 1 class per year group and not having mixed age classes is a selling point and our USP in this area. PP is really low as well so budgets are beyond stretched.

The OP is talking about a much bigger school than yours, it could just be a 1FE by the sounds of it.

Our school went from 7 classes to 6 a few years ago so all classes are now mixed. I think it depends a bit where you fall in the year my kids are on the older end so went up which was quite nice as felt stretched and had the option to work with older kids on maths etc. Eldest is in final year and feels like he is repeating it though. I know some parents felt that their kids were being held back by being with a younger cohort. There has been a few kids that tootled off to private. It’s a mixed bag but being at local school is of course invaluable.

I was in a mixed class for a few years in primary school and wouldn’t recommend it.

The pace was slow when I was in the upper grade of the mixed class especially when we learnt the same topics. I also felt my self esteem was low as a result of being in the lower grade of the mixed class since we clearly didn’t know as much as the older children and were bossed around.

The younger and older kids never mixed in the playground, whilst I might speak to the older kids, they were never my playmates and vice versa.

My sons school has been mixed each year apart from the first and it's been great. For maths and english they tend to stream across classes anyway based on ability so that hasn't been an issue, and he's made friends from the year above and the year under. Now he's in the last year and some of his friends are already at secondary so that's helpful with transition.

Bit late to the discussion but I'd person avoid mixed classes
we've not had a good experience at all with it in a school who've taught this way for years
I can see it makes sense when everyone in the school is in a mixed class so they all get a comparable experience
i can also see staying with the same cohort throughout even if it's mixed could work but in our school classes shuffle year on year
and it's always the summer kids who seem to be shoved in and out of their main year group cohort
were repeatedly told the kids all do the same work but they 100% don't stretch the year one kids in the mixed class with reception the same way as the ones in their own class and the year 1s mixed with year 2 are basically just doing year 2 work and have therefore thrived
unless your summer own child is clearly behind I would say it'll have a massive negative impact based on our experience so far
and we aren't alone most of the parents we've spoken to at the school seem to say it's very dependent on the teacher you get and also that the kids in with older kids benefit but the older in with younger don't at all and "if you are lucky" it has no negative effects long term

i also can't make sense of the funding here either how can they afford 20_1 ratio with a 60 intake they could just do 2 normal classes of 30!?

I don’t understand the numbers either, mixed years usually come about as your initial intake for a year group class is less than 30.

Would just say that with falling birth rate many more schools will end up with at least some mixed year classes, especially with funding being so tight. So don’t choose a school simply because it hasn’t got mixed year classes, because that may change

Mixed year groups can work quite smoothly where they've got their schemes of work set up for it. The consistent mixing of 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 means the parallel classes will all be working to the same scheme of work, and the school will have good planning in place. The teachers can also support each other with planning, as there are three parallel classes.

As others have said, it's very unlikely they would be running this system if they have 30 per year throughout. What is their PAN? My guess is that it's 45, which makes 3 classes for every two year groups pretty efficient, and if they've got classes of 20, that's due to falling rolls. When that first happens, you might stick with the current arrangements because if the numbers pick up then you'd need to. However if numbers aren't picking up, I think you can expect them either to go to single year classes, or to keep current arrangements but with two classes instead of three for each year group (this leaves more flexibility if they get an influx of new pupils and need to go back to three - you can't have more than 30 in a Y1/Y2 class).

(Our local school used to have 5 classes for each pair of year groups, got bigger, moved to single year-group classes, changed the schemes of work, then numbers went down again and some year groups went back to the previous arrangement.)

The nearest school definitely has big advantages - you can walk to school, later the kids can walk on their own, friends are local, etc.
Wraparound care is an important consideration if you will need it. Ask careful questions on that. In some schools it turns out there's a waiting list. If ad hoc places are available, that probably means they have spare capacity - if it gets fuller, ad hoc might only be available on some days. As with many things, there's no guarantee it will be the same in a few years.