Fine at home, awful at school!

[RCH643]

So DS turns 5 in Oct and ever since he was 3 he's had problems in preschool and now reception. The teacher has issues with him: not listening, not using kind hands, shouting out etc and it's pretty consistent and has been since about 3. Obviously it's very stressful for us and when they talk about SEN it just blows my mind. When I say he's the easiest child I've ever met I mean it, he's a dream whether that be at home, at soft play, on holiday, in someone else's house etc. the only setting we've ever had trouble with his school/preschool, so in my mind (and I'm not very educated on the topic hence the post) how could he be SEN? He talks about his emotions with us, he's super loving, doesn't have an issue following instructions, never had any issues with his sleep. He's not hyperactive, could sit still and watch films all day for example. It's so daunting and confusing. He was assessed in nursery at 3 by the SEN leader of our area and they said he doesn't show any markers for ADHD/ASD. So I just don't know what to do with him. Obviously we will support the school however they want but I'm so worried he's going to get expelled because of his poor behaviour. And when they ask us for help we genuinely don't know what to suggest, we aren't there in the classroom with him and can't physically stop the behaviour and nothing we seem to do at home as any impact on the way he is in school. If anyone has any advice please feel free to comment.

I’m wondering if the bits he struggles with are where he has to share, compromise or wait his turn - and that’s not something he has to do at home so it wouldn’t show up there?Does he have any siblings?

If so, it’s pretty normal for kids to struggle with these things especially if they are eldest or only children. Perhaps you could practice getting him to wait more, take turns more?

I may be barking up a gumtree mind you!

Hi, he's an only child, an only grandchild, zero cousins and is the apple of everyone's eye basically 🤣. He does struggle with waiting his turn and not having full adult attention so that's definitely an issue at school, I don't think that's enough for them to bring up SEN though. We've talked a lot about sharing and waiting turns etc but there's only so much we can do as he doesn't have to do these actions consistently at home if that makes sense x

But he can be taught these at home. Don't give him attention the moment he asks; make him wait 10 seconds / 2 minutes / 10 minutes (build it up). Play games with him and expect hun to share fairly with you; don't let him win just because he's the only child. Don't let the adults in your family spoil him. Just because it is possible to give him undivided attention at home doesn't mean it is desirable.

@Thisismynewusernamedoyoulikeit
We've been doing all of these activities consistently since he was 3, unfortunately they haven't helped at all. We still of course do them, he still has to follow instructions at home and we have a routine and expectations of him.

Do you make him do it? Do you say Mummy and Daddy are talking you need to wait your turn or when he asks for some help you do you say I’m just going to dry my hair or whatever and then I can help you.

@Choosingmiddleschool
Hi, yes we've been doing that for years with him. At first he didn't like waiting but now he waits whatever the time he needs to. He's also able to play independently at home for hours and doesn't get constant attention from us.

I do agree somewhat with minipie. That its possibly him not coping with the lack of attention.
But what is he actually doing when frustrated at school or nursery?
Presumably hitting?
Because it does seem strange that he can be so dfferent in school in how he reacts to the frustration.

how is or was his speech?

My eldest was a litte like this. I mean she was always difficult at home and toddler groups but with me there and watching it wasnt too bad with the kids even preschool was similar with a few issues but not directed at the kids more running the tap and blocking the plughole etc.
But school was another level with 30-60 kids it all kicked off with hitting, scratching even biting!
So i would say generally it was worse where other kids behaviour was worse and less supervision
And yes the school supervision especially wasnt great because then ne er knew what happened or why and often the other kid would be being verbally mean or wonding up. So reception the boys wouod be saying to another boy 'we dont play with girls' or to dd 'youre not invited to my party because...'
It has to be noted that this is 8 years ago now so these 2 boys have grown up a lot but certainly the 'party boy' has continued to wind everyone up and isnt very popular (but is very clever) the other also has friendship issues. They both have older sisters so perhaos were more socially aware than my oldest dc who only did 9m of preschool.

However dd is awaiting asd/adhd referral, since 10 now 12.
Yes the school were rubbish with both supervision and punishment and SEN, teaching getting along, sharing etc. And several kids did seem impacted by y6.
But still dd was an outlier in resorting to violence rather than words.

Also meant to ask - what age did he start preschool as you mention age 3

@Weiredeout
Hi thanks for the reply. So he's been in nursery since he was 1, the issues started in nursery when he was 3, we moved him to the pre school of the school he now attends and he had some issues to start of with then it calmed down until summer, now he's in reception it's all back again. So yes he lashes out at other children, nothing to the point of causing them pain/injury. The teacher calls him defiant and thinks he's doing it on purpose for example at carpet time when we tells everyone to be quiet she says he hears this and starts making a loud noise so no one can enjoy carpet time. His speech is fantastic, very communicative and clear.

Could be defiance, but could it be a stim?
Mine was awful for nail biting during carpet time (she never did before reception and then bit her actual fingers red raw)

Carpet time is particularly boring with nothing in their hands plus close (too close) to all the other kids.
Do you think a fidget toy might help?
Interesting he was ok to start with at nursery. Sometimes seeing behaviour from others sets kids off. Or having them snatching etc

Is the bahaviour happening at breaks or also in free play times?

@Weiredeout
Hi. It seems to be carpet time in particular she's talking about and then the teacher says it spills out into the rest of the day after that. To be honest he is stubborn and strong willed and if he thinks something he will say it. He says he doesn't care about carpet time to her and I don't think she likes this. He was perfectly behaved in nursery until about 3, I think it was learned behaviour, we were getting phone calls saying he's been bitten, hit, we have had to take him to drs because he's been hit hard at nursery. None of his family have ever witnessed him lashing out so again it's so hard for us because we can't really comment, even in soft play when another boy hits him he will cry and come to us straight away and tell us. We've also noticed he prefers to play with girls at soft play because he says they are more gentle. So again, it's so hard when school sound like they're describing a different child than the one we experience.

Have you had his hearing checked? With something like glue ear it can mean they are ok 1:1 when someone is talking directly to them like at home but can’t hear anything when there’s background noise or the speaker is further away so your typical classroom environment. It can also come and go so sometimes kids with it can still speak really well and it can go unnoticed until behavioural problems start.

We had this with our child. I could have written this post word for word! Gentle, caring, sensible and sensitive child, but we were being constantly called by the school because they were hitting other kids. Everything I read online said it should be the opposite - well behaved at school then letting it out at home. But for us, pre-school and Reception were pretty bad. It started at age 3. Lots of hitting, not listening, etc, but perfectly behaved at home and when out with us. It's pretty devastating being the parent of "that child" when yet again they've punched another kid. I found it hard to reconcile that picture with what I knew about my gentle child. Our child seems to be settling down now they're older. I think the chaos of the busy classroom triggered a lot of anger, frustration and overwhelm (particular triggers around other kids getting in their space and taking their things - imagine coping with this an adult for 6 hours a day, let alone being a 5 year old), but the more structured environment as primary school progressed helped them to regulate. Pre-school and school have suggested possible ASD, I think it may be possible too and explains the lashing out. It seems to have settled for now. Perhaps the chaotic environment is also triggering for your son and it may settle down? Just sending empathy because I get you.

I'd have a talk with him and see what he finds difficult at school.

Something at school is upsetting him and making him lash out.

@rainfallpurevividcat
Hi, thanks for reply. So he tells us he acts out at school because he misses us, he doesn't want to go into school and cries at the gate and has to be pulled off us sometimes. He's made friends and has always been sociable so I know he's not lonely at school.

@DarlingClementine85
Thank you so much for this, it makes me feel better hearing the same stories. I always read it when children misbehave at home but are really good in school, it's so tough the other way round. How old is your little one now? I'm glad they're coping better! To add, DS is very immature and I don't think that's helping!

It maybe he feels a bit unsafe/not listened to that if he does go to the teacher they wont do anything.
But it sounds like he is perhaps anxious on starting new places (or rooms perhaps?) So a bit of a fight or flight behaviour.

Part of dd issues is that she doesnt respect any authority (teacher, parent, head teacher). But also she never ever tells a teacher she thinks its being a snitch. Also she will never defend her behaviour to a teacher she just shuts down.