School admissions

[Parent54321]

Hi, I was wondering if anybody could help me.
Where I live the primary schools are not brilliant, there is a really good primary school approx 3 miles away that I would like my child to go to. It is a faith school. We are of that faith, so no issue there. The schools over-subscription policy prioritises children within the Parish area, of which we live outside of!! So we believe we would be low down the schools list in an over-subscription scenario. Luckily, although a good school, every year for the last 5 years the school has been under-subscribed according to Locrating, but Locrating bases this on first choice applicants!! 30 Available places, 20 First choice applicants... but there are 30 Second choice and 30 3rd choice applicants... The school always fills the 30 places with 2nd choice applicants!! I assume because these applicants did not get their first choice spot, so were assigned this school, being their second choice. If I put my child down first choice for this school, is my child guarenteed a place based on it being under-subscribed with first choice applicants? Or would the children who had it 2nd choice automatically take my childs spot if they were higher up the schools priority list and they did not get their first choice?... I understand that in an over-subscription scenario this would absolutely be the case, but if a school is under-subscribed with first choice applicants would my childs spot be guaranteed? - long story short - is over-subscribed purely on first choice? Or is it classed as over-subscribed as soon as more than 30 children name it in any preference? (Surely this would always make every school be deemed as over-subscribed?)

You won't get prioritised for listing the school first. The school will order everyone who applies (whether 1st, 2nd, 3rd) in order based on their admissions policy and then work down the list to allocate spaces. So in this case if someone lives in the parish, puts it 2nd and doesn't get into their 1st choice, they would get a place before you did.

Yes, in a way almost all schools are 'oversubscribed' in that they have more applicants than places. Although some schools might still not fill all their places if most people list other schools higher, and then probably wouldn't claim they were oversubscribed.

I understand it probably seems frustrating for you. However the good thing about the equal preference system is you can list this school first and you won't risk your chance of getting a place at a more local school. Also you may still have a chance at a place, especially as birth rate has fallen so many areas have less children starting school. Ideally you would find out (from the school or LA) what category they admitted to on previous years and that will give you some idea of how likely you are to get a place, although it can change of course

PP has answered most of your questions.

A school is oversubscribed if there is not enough spaces for people that want them. This isn't just the total number of applicants but the sum of everyone that listed the school first and everyone who listed the school lower, but didn't meet te oversubscription criteria for their higher ranked schools.

So if 1000 people list the school last but get their first preferences, this doesn't count for the basis of "oversubscription".

The crucial point for you to look at is where the last place was awarded based on oversubscription criteria. From what you've said these look something like
1.children of faith living in Parish
2.children of faith living outside Parish

Or
1.chlidren of faith living in Parish
2.children not of faith living in Parish
3.children of faith living outside Parish.

If for example, your school uses the second set of criteria and never awards places outside category 2, then your chance to get a place may be small.
however, if they typically go to category 3 and a distance of 1.5 miles from school and you live 0.8 miles away, you might be hopeful.

Sorry, every applicant has equal weighing no matter where they placed that school on their list. Someone who put it as third choice will get in ahead of you if their 1st and 2nd choices are already full, if they live closer. The admission policy is applied to all applicants, regardless of where they placed the school on their list. Obviously if there is space at their 1st choice school they will get that instead, but if not they'll be considered against the admissions criteria of this school.

Putting a school as 1st choice does not bump you up the pecking order. You're simply expressing a preference for that school if they have space, you're not given priority over other people who place it further down their list. Sorry that's not the news you wanted to hear.

It's unusual the data is released that way to you as where I am we have no idea who placed the school 1st, 2nd or 3rd on the list, or who didn't even choose us but was offered a space anyway as the nearest school with space (unless they turn down the place - that's usually an indicator!). We simply get a list from admissions of who has been offered a place. It is published which schools are oversubscribed in the area, but not a breakdown of how many listed the school as 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice.

It is unlawful for the school to rank applicants according to the preference they put the school. They have to allocate places according to their policy.

I have not found the Locrating data to be very accurate in my area. It was all round numbers and not the right ones. Is the data released by the LA, or by the school, consistent with Locratings?

Some good advice upthread. The other issue to consider is local demographics and changes in other local primaries. In many areas, not all, primary numbers are down due to a fall in births. Some schools may be making changes to respond to this, such as reducing their Published Admission Number (PAN), so if nearby schools reduce their PAN, say from 90 to 60 or from 60 to 30, then families who could have favoured other schools may be diverted to the school you want. If the school has high faith requirements, such as Baptism and strict Church attendance signed off by the Priest, you may find that works in your favour.

Thanks this was really helpful, I knew this would be the case generally, it was with Locrating stating under-subscribed based on the 1st choice applicants I thought that the over-subscription criteria may not apply (and I suppose that is true as long as all the children who had this school 2nd & 3rd got their first choice - but not if they dont). Obviously If I was in the shoes of the other parent who lived closer and their child ended up in their 3rd or 4th choice because my child who lives outside the parish took their spot Id probably be frustrated also. So I suppose its probably fair [my frustration should probably be aimed at the 1 good school within my Parish which, unlike all the good schools in other Parish's DOES NOT prioritise the children living within our parish area... and is always massively over-subscribed (3 to 1 with First choice alone)] . Since posting, I found another feature on Locrating, showing a rough area of each child admitted to the school each year - It showed that in most previous years atleast 10 children from the 30 that starting my preferred school lived outside of the parish area, So maybe all is not lost!!

Look at your council data, it may show how many children wete admitted under each admissions criteria.

Definitely look at data published by your LA for the past few years.

I'd ignore what Locrating says - it sounds badly muddled.

Look instead on school or LA website where you should find information on previous years admissions.

It should tell you in which admissions categories all applicants got a place, and which category was the tie break (ie not all applicants in that category could receive an offer) and what was the furthest distance offered in that category.

Obviously that can change year-on-year depending on how many DC live nearby and apply for the school. Also these tables are based on the offers made on National Offers Day, and there may have been movement via waiting ist after that.

The important thing for you is to use all the slots on your form, and to list the schools in genuine order of preference (as it's completely against the Admissions Code all schools must follow to use ranking on the form as a criterion). And always worth using your final slot for a school you are near-as-dammit certain you'll get in to. Better an iffy school that's logistically convenient than qualifying for none of your preferences and being allocated the nearest school with a vacancy (which might be just as iffy and a pig of a journey as well)

Schools have no say whatsoever, past deciding on their admissions criteria. Admissions allocated placed based on this. Schools won't even know who ranked them 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice (or not at all).

You need to find the oversubscription criteria, so you know what priority (if any) they give to those who meet the faith criteria (and what those are - it might be baptism, or it might be attendance) and also anything else, such as siblings.
Knowing only how many children are admitted from as far away as you may not be useful; if siblings are higher up the criteria, those children may have got in on the sibling rule rather than faith or general.
You should also be able to find the information on how far down the criteria they got last year, and possibly previous years. That will give you a good idea of whether you would get in, but factor in any obvious changes, such as a huge new housing estate next to the school.
If it is a small school, previous years' data may be less reliable as a guide - sometimes there is an exceptionally high number of siblings, and they take up most of the spaces.