4-5 year olds should know their numbers 1-100 in reception...

[saintpeta]

...shouldn't they?

lol daisy, i am not pushy at all. dd2 is currently playing her nintendo ds. we do her reading books, once a day, and she asks for a couple of simple sums every now and then.

I AM pushy with my ds and his numeracy - he is a bright child and his number concepts are in advance of his age - so I am pushy to the extent that I have discussed this with the teacher and am asking her to stretch him - give him things to do within the topic they are doing which challange him, which is what they should be doing anyway.
I do not make him do extra at home.
Every child is different, there will be many children who know past 20, there will be others who have difficulty upto 5. My mum once had a child enter reception who had no concept of numbers at all and couldn't even count to 3.
What is important is that the school recognises the ability of each child and teaches to that ability, rather than to a set level which they should averagely attain.

what exactly does the child get from knowing their numbers up to 100 at this age?

I presume any child who is genuinely fascinated by numbers and has found they 'need' more numbers than 1 - 20 will have pestered adults to teach them anyway

so what do the remaining children who haven't discovered them through their own interests gain?

The target in dd's school is recognizing, being able to write, and add up to 20 by the end of reception.

Some children can go way beyond this, but that is fine, the others will catch up in the next year or so

Dd for instance can add up numbers up to a hundred. But if she sees for example the number 73 written down, she has to ask me what it is

She is 5 and in state reception btw.

Well, my DD1 has learning delays and she's entering reception in August.

She can't consistently count to 10, and will have support at school.

I doubt she'll be counting to 100 at the end of it.

And you know what expat, as Franny says, 'what benefit will she gain from being to count to a 100'?

She (and many others) will do it when they are ready.

I am getting sooo fed up of targets by end of reception, targets by the time they are 5,7,14 whatever....

As long as they are learning and making progress in their own way, then surely that is fine?

saintpeta - if your child can do it and understand the concepts of tens and hundreds that's great.

IMO there will be children in year 2 who can't understand the concept that 10 lots of 10 makes 100 but that will still be somewhere on the spectrum of normal.

dd1 is four and can manage realiable up to 12 (in two languages mind you).

All children are different.

I have to say that I was a great deal less laidback about DS#1. His lack of progress really worried me (his teacher was fine about it though). He didn't know anything like 100 and his reading and writing was weak to say the least. But he is now heading for 5b in his yr6 SATs. So now I don't stress.

She likes learning and thankfully, here in Scotland, the emphasis isn't on targets for 5-year-olds but making them see learning as fun and desirable.

Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, not just in school but in the world.

Isn't that a valuable lesson to learn, too?

I was told 1-20 at Ds's last parents meeting.

Ds can couint up to 30 but does get confused sometimes.

His mother can't even spell count poor lad LOL.

I read thread like these and I'm so glad dd1 isn't in the british school system. It sounds so stressful at this age.

it's a strange contrast, belgo, is it not?

my ex was brought up in Germany and they didn't even teach them to read until they were 7.

he's a geophysicist, FWIW.

It is very different here in Belgium. DD1 is bright, but far more interesting in learning to cycle and swim rather then reading and counting. And as it happens I think swimming and riding a bike are more useful skills to have at this age.

But of course some children aged four will love reading and counting.

He sounds like my ex, belgo! He was also more interested in sport at that age. I mean, they're kids when they're 5.

They have all their lives to be 'bright'. But only one childhood.

I'm only concerned about the low level we expect for our children in the schools. the benefit of counting from 1-100 is the same as counting from 1-10 i believe. I haven't pushed ds just taught him. I don't like kids having early years targets but if the uk is going to have them why do they need to be so low?

Many children can recite numbers to 100 and beyond in reception this isn't the same as counting to 100 or knowing numbers to 100. So it really depends what you mean saintpeta by knowing.

Meeting with DD reception teacher, she said numbers 1-20 is what they start at but some children know no numbers at all when they come in.
My DD1 knows 1-100 forward and backwards. She also can double numbers 1-10, can count in 10s too. I am by no means a pushy parent but DD1 is a sponge, and loves numbers

In reception children are taught to count aloud in ones, twos, fives and tens .

Primary Framework for Mathematics
In Reception

Say and use number names in order in familiar contexts
Use ordinal numbers in different contexts
Match sets of objects that represent the number of objects
Use language such as ?more? or ?less? to compare two numbers
Find one more or one less than a number from 1 to 10
Sort objects, making choices and justifying decisions
Estimate how many objects they can see and check by counting
Count reliably up to 10 everyday objects
Use developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems
Know that numbers identify how many objects are in a set
Match sets of objects to numerals that represent the number of objects
Count aloud in ones, twos, fives and tens
Count repeated groups of the same size
Observe number relationships and patterns in the environment and use these to derive facts
Describe solutions to practical problems, drawing on experience, talking about own ideas, methods and choices.
Sort familiar objects to identify their similarities and differences
Count how many objects share a particular property, presenting results using pictures, drawings or numerals
Sort objects, making choices and justifying decisions
Recognise numerals 1 to 9

Match sets of objects to numerals that represent the number of objects
Select two groups of objects to make a given total of objects
Use developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems
Begin to relate addition to combining two sets of objects and subtraction to taking away
In practical activities and discussion begin to use the vocabulary involved in adding and subtracting
Describe solutions to practical problems, drawing on experience, talking about their own ideas, methods and choices
Share objects into equal groups and count how many in each group
Describe solutions to practical problems, drawing on experience, talking about their own ideas, methods and choices
Use familiar objects and common shapes to create and recreate patterns and build models
Use language such as ?circle? or ?bigger? to describe the shape and size of solids and flat shapes
Talk about, recognise and recreate simple patterns
Use everyday words to describe position
Use developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems
Use language such as ?greater?, ?lighter?, ?smaller?, ?heavier?, or ?lighter? to compare quantities
Sort objects, making choices and justifying decisions
Use everyday language related to time; order and sequence familiar events and measure short periods of time
Use developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems

quite a lot of things to learn when you are just five and for those children who achieve these before they leave reception they simply move onto the next stage.

Because it's not about counting it's about understanding place value and all that guff....which is far more than knowing that 78 comes after 77.

It's about understanding that once you get to 10 you put that number in a pile which is known as "tens" and start another pile which is now known as "units" etc etc

The concern is that children learn to count but they have no idea what they are doing when they are counting.

6 year olds can learn advanced physics formulae too - but prob would not be able to do much with them!

That said I do think individual progress targets vary widely in the schools I've been associated with - so some children will be miles ahead of others and will be expected to be there by the teachers even though it's way beyond the baseline target.

The baseline that children are expected to reach should be really seen as a safety net under which children must not be allowed to fall rather than an aspirational target.

x post mrz - that's just what I meant.

Children move on when ready not according to age or stage.

thanks all-mrz & gagarin this is really useful to know esp. the part about the safety net - i was looking at it the other way round...thinking it was an aspirational target.