Frustrated child report cant get into exceeding for maths, anyome else the same?

[Missydustyroom]

Dc2 one of older in year. Got maybe 111 on ks1 sats last year and still got met. Is doing really well with maths and has been doing some at home too. Still stuck on met now y3.

Eldest was similar i knew she was better than met and did end up getting exceeded at y6. Just suppose i want school to be able to get them to achieve what they are capable of.

The school seem to think speed in maths is most important. And put kids early on in 'baskets' of these are the best kids at xyz. With very little movement through school.
Dc1 had - met everything in reception (even reading when reading chapter books).
Then exceeding reading all to y6. Everything else (incl science/geo etc etc was always 'met')
Also being exceeding at spag, readong and maths by y6 they couldnt get her (of really any at all) kods into exceeding for writing.

Dc2 has only ever had 'met' on everything on all reports. Tbh its all pretty meaningless, as the range of 'met' is huge! Even 1 of my dc to the other. The levels they had before would be much more helpful. As from the reports its impossible to even tell what area would need work. Wothout a parent asking at parents eve there is no, we see x is meeting easily what can we do to move x upwards.

Overall (at this school) the exceeding seem to come from the parents doing extra at home.

But interestingly dc1 (who they still thought wasnt great at maths when she left) has actually been doing very well at secondary where there is harder work.

If you want to know what to work on at home email the teacher and ask.

They will know.

Alternatively get a workbook and start going through it yourself.

I have 2 daughters who were top of middle set all through primary. They were pretty invisible, always doing well in what they were tested on, so were left to pootle along, not being pushed or stretched. They found their feet more in secondary, being stretched more (because they asked for the additional work) and are happy. Both have graduated this month with Firsts. One STEM, one English.

Then if you are really that fussed about her getting more than "met" do work at home like the ones who are exceeding. It's basic level stuff and there are workbooks in WH Smith etc for each KeyStage. You can soon see where you think she is "lacking".

However, what is wrong with meeting expectations? Why do you feel the need for her to "exceed"?

From what I can infer from your post, the school is following White Rose maths where differentiation comes from level of support (concrete resources or adult) and increasing the level of difficulty in the challenges. Every lesson comes with a series of challenges which get progressively harder and the children complete them in order. This means that those accessing support will usually only do the first tranche of questions because using manipulatives takes time, so this is all that will be done in the independent section of the lesson. Those children that can access the work (mostly) independently, but might take a little longer to work out their answers, will complete all but the open/explanation challenges, which are the greater depth ones. The summative assessments will also increase in difficulty as the child works through the paper, so those who work at a slow pace may not finish it in the time allowed. A teacher needs evidence to say a child is working at greater depth, which is demonstrated by work in the books and test results.

Personally, I would not worry if my child was E rather than ED at this age as long as they are understanding the core learning and enjoying school. However, if you wish for your child to be working at ED, ask for copies of the unused challenges (there are always some around) to come home to do as extra homework. Other things you can do at home to increase speed and accurancy are improving her recall of times table and division facts (TT test at tend of Y$!) and number bonds to 100. I hope this helps.

Soory, Y4, not Y$

Honestly don't do it to them.

DS1 was borderline and the school turtored him to get him over the line for the benefit of their results.

The unaturally high achievement at the end of primary meant his target grades in secondary were too high and he failed to meet everything through his whole secondary career, despite grades that were perfectly good.

I would think it would be obvious to the teacher which children are exceeding in maths.

What does DC2 say about their maths lessons at school? Is the work easy? Does DC2 finish it quickly and (pretty) accurately, and then ask the teacher for something more challenging? Does this happen in most maths lessons? Do they invent their own harder questions at the end of the work, and then answer them?

If DC2 is getting pretty much everything correct and is bored in maths lessons, encourage them to speak to the teacher to ask for some extra challenges.

If DC2 is keeping up nicely with the work and is enjoying their maths lessons, there’s nothing to worry about. They are at the right level. It is ok to be ‘meeting’ at this stage. There is plenty of time for them to shine in maths in the future, if that’s the way they develop. A grading on a report at the end of Y3 isn’t going to change anything.

I agree somewhat puffin, ive seen kids pushed by schools who then drop back at secondary as they need to be able to pick things up quickly and cant whereas primary later years there is a lot of revision.

Ive had workbooks but they dont seem to have the stretching questions to practise on the same type.
Thats good to hear beyond.

Generally passing sats at say 100 would predict say a 4 at gcse and 110 might only be say a 6. I guess thats why im aiming for exceeding.

Mugglewump- im not sure its white rose as thats what they had durimg lockdowns and it doesnt look like that. But the princple is that of increasing difficult challenges.

I dont think she is using apparatus or generally having help.

I cant see rhe school sending ho!e extra work as the homework is only ever online etc (so no marking etc). We have been going through her books to cover anything she didnt finish, but as you say the hardest stuff isnt necessarily in there.

I wonder if ideally she would start on challemge insteax of reviewing the easy stuff (core). Relatively long time doing say basic sums but then not finishing the new stuff.

I guess secondary is similar in that if you aremt in set 1 you arent necessarioy covering the superchallemge work at all.

Letitgotoruin yes i know it doesnt mean amything as y3 is an in between year really. But its very hard to change a teachers opinion. (With dc1 vasically she had to exceed on the external sats before school would acknowledge her as exceeding).

I agree it should be clear who is good at maths but the focus on speed (and possibky arithmetic) rather colours it. Pages and pages of just ticks and 'excellent' but not completing all the challenge work make the difference. However it is also clear that the school in particular manipulate data about progress so it looks like more is made.

This way of extending whilst good the kids have the opportunity doesnt seem to work for either of my kids and both are very different to each other.

The homework is online and everyone (afaik) does the same. So ploughing through a lot that is generally too easy. But even say year ahead aork doesnt really cover work in the way the challenge stuff does.

During covid dc1 did almost all the super challenge work so it was for her certainly a time issue.

I know how you feel. Have similar with my son. Always getting reports with low attainment even though I know he's bright. Just received his report today and he's got secure and working towards for most of his subjects, yet he got 118, 118 and 111(reading) in his SATs! Also got highest in his class in his 11+! So not too thrilled with his teacher. But it means nothing now and he's off to Grammar school in September.

At my Secondary school HAP students (Higher Academic Potential) had a SATS score of 115/120 and above, so whilst 111 is great and your child is clearly bright if he scored similarly at KS2 he would probably be a top of a group 2 child who meets expectations, not an exceeding group 1 child.

Obviously movement does happen but 111 and the top 120 is quite a gap in achievement.

'Met' should cover a large range, 'exceeding' is for the few exceptional children.

My son got met at the end of KS2, and he's off to study Maths at Imperial College in September. I really wouldn't worry about it. He got below in writing and achieved two grade 9s in his English GCSEs. It's what they do at secondary that actually matters.

Children are better to learn maths at a pace that suits them as it provides building blocks as they progress. Just leave your child be. They are obviously getting on fine

I have had two summer born daughters who were below expectations for most of primary, then at expectations for year 6. My youngest son in year 2 is much more academically able, his handwriting has been a perfect cursive for over a year, he has been a free reader for over a year reading books above his age level, knows more than the recommended multiplication requirements and knows all the spellings for the year above. I was hoping to see at least one exceeding in his end of year report but all targets are just at expected standard but say he has high potential. I personally suspect they grade down as much as they can because a school is graded on how pupils make progress by end of year 6, rather than what they are before then.

That's encouraging that despite not getting greater depth, he's still passed (more than!) the 11+.

You hear of people saying that it's only children being assessed as greater depth who are Grammar school standard.

My DC1 (just finished year 3) was at greater depth for reading until Easter last year. Has always been at met expectations for writing and maths and is now also met for reading. She has recently been diagnosed with ASD and I think this affects her comprehension of questions, etc. She also struggles a bit with handwriting.

She is however bright and I don't think is meeting her potential. Both DH and I went to Grammar and I know the standards are higher now, but she seems no less capable than we were. She picks things up really quickly. We have recently started with a tutor (just an hour a week) and he has quickly picked up on how bright she is.

Obviously we don't want to push her if she is not at the required standard, but I think the school, as much as they like to say they help all children reach their potential, are happy enough if children are meeting expectations. Their focus seems to be on helping the children falling below that. There's been nothing done, for example, to understand why she went from nearly three years of achieving greater depth in reading to just meeting expectations.

I wouldn't put too much focus on this. My oldest dc was 'working towards' in most subjects throughout primary but got exceeding in reading and maths in Y6. It was quite a jump for him. He is predicted 6-8 now at gcse.

my youngest is in Y1 and he has exceeding in everything despite being the youngest in the year. I know he is bright but he doesn't do anything extra at home. Schools do things differently. Focus on good habits, thirst for learning, reading lots and in secondary they will be fine.

I feel like I should question the school on why my son has not met the greater depth standard when there is now good proof with tests that he was working at greater depth, but he's already achieved the main goal which was getting into grammar school, so decided to just leave it. Although I think the school has things to work on really as there wasn't communication on levels for the rest of year 6 so only found out my son was working towards in science at the end of year 6!

For your child, is there grammar school options in the area? If so, I would say you know best on whether your child is capable of passing the 11+ or not, so go with tutor if you think they can. If I only looked at my son's reports I would have thought he was average and not capable of grammar! So glad I knew myself he was more than capable and unfortunately under estimated in the whole of primary school.

I think teachers always recognise the very bright dc but don’t always see the “sleepers”. I felt this with DD1. School was amazed she got 1 mark off maximum score in Bucks 11 plus back in the day. I always felt it’s because she didn’t have neat handwriting. Her brain was ok though. Other dc were the favourites. Maybe it’s because dc isn’t being tutored too. Mine wasn’t but others were. Pleased to say DD isn’t overlooked at work. It’s all ok in the end.