Failed to get a primary school place and panicking, What should we do?

[staranise]

Please help!
We have failed to get a school place at any of the seven local schools we have applied for for our daughter, who will be four in June. We're 19th on the waiting list for our first choice but our council has told us that we haven't a chance of getting in. I don't think we've been too fussy about our choice of schools (all walking distance, non-church), though we didn't apply to our very closest school as it is very rubbish. We're appealing on grounds of distance, but I don't think this will help as they've already said they won't change the distance criteria for this year. The council say we either go to a rubbish school (probably about 2 miles away) or we skip a year's school as they're not legally obliged to educate her til she's five.

We are considering private but could barely afford it - even the deposit is £1200
Has anyone else been in a similar situation and what did you do? i feel like we've really let our daughter down and she is soooo keen to go to school

Thanks for any advice

star

You haven't got one at all? The Local Authority are obliged to educate your child. I thought.

I would look again at the 'very rubbish' closest school, and probably give it a go. Probably a better option than one two miles away that you don't think is any better.
Once she is in, you may find it is surprisingly ok. If not, you can keep you name down at your preferred options (talk to people there to see what the likely mobility is) and transfer her later.

the rubbish local one is full now though i guess we could go on the waiting list (it's not that much closer than our first choice) as it will be less sort after.
I'm also pregnant and have a two year old and jsut can't face the idea that, come september, I might have my four year old at home as well. She could stay in her nursery as it takes them til 5, but it's expensive plus it's only 9-12 and has v long holidays.
The LA aren't obliged to educate til they're 5 and she's a young one, so that means sept 09, though she owuld skip reception and go straight into year 1

I don't think its a good plan to keep her back for a year - you would then have to apply for a transfer place anyway and there's no guarantee that the schools you like will have a place then either.
Have you looked at the place you were offered? Why do you think it is rubbish?
Pity the closest one is full now, I guess there must be some people who want to go there...

Agree with elliott - stay with nearest 'rubbish' school, it may not be as 'rubbish' as is said.

I wouldn't skip a year's school unless you really want to go down home ed route

Stay on waiting lists for as many schools as you can. Don't narrow yourself to first choice. Even the most popular high-performing primary schools can have high pupil turnover - people move, go private etc - and places turn up though maybe not until Y1 or later. It will be OK.

Thanks for reassurance.
Maybe am being a bit precious about the nearest rubbish school but I only ever hear bad things about it: it serves a big rough estate, has a very high special needs intake and i know one of the peripatetic teachers there, who put me off by telling tales of feckless parents, bullying etc. No PTA etc. I also don't know anyone who goes there so woud find it a bit daunting plus it looks like a concentration camp and is only marginally closer than our first choice. Just hate the idea of sending our daughter who is small and young for her school year (albeit v confident) into this rough place. Though hate the idea of keeping her back a year even more. I think it boils down to rubbish school vs private school, hopefully both of them a temporary option until she gets a place at first choice school and/or we leave london!

Thanks again for bearing with me on this one, i must seem like ultimate neurotic pushy mum!

I'm in the same position exactly (LA not lifting a finger, have almost 2 year old and newborn, can't contemplate private ed). It is very, very stressful and I do sympathise - we have decided to apply to a primary school which will be a drive away but currently has some spaces and see if we are any further up the waiting list for neighbourhood schools come Sept. If we are, we will keep dd at home for a couple of months until a place comes up locally.

It is terrible though and I feel wretched about it - can't even face seeing some people who I know have got into "our" schools.

hmmm

staranise, high special need intake does not make a school "rubbish" (may push down its SATs results tho )

Bullying I agree is more of a problem but how is it dealt with?

I would certainly not let yr DD miss a year of school. What do you think of the school where they have offered you a place?

I assume yr catchment area school is the "very rubbish" close one? Have you looked round it and the one you have been offered? You may be pleasantly surprised.

We are well within the catchment area for all seven schools that we have applied to, but we live in a very built up, family-friendly area which means that all teh schools are over-subscribed and it comes down to how many sibling places have been offered that year plus a matter of metres as to whether or not you get in .
The school they have offered us is quite far away (ie, it would involve driving on the A3 every day and I don't drive) or two buses every morning and I just can't imagine doing that daily with three kids, particularly for a school that is ranked bottom out of all the 50 schools in our borough.
I totally agree that large intake of special needs does not equate rubbish, and I haven't even looked at its SATs results but added to all the other factors, ie, the intake is all from a sink estate, it has a bad reputation for bullying and parents who don't give a damn (though this could jsut be bad-mouthing), it looks run down and it's barely closer than our first choice school, i jsut can't imagine it as a safe, happy place for my daughter to go to every day.
But, like you say, I really don't want her to miss a year of school and perhaps any school is better than nothing!? Do you think that's true? I imagine that most reception classes at least have fairly nice atmospheres, it's further up the school they get rougher. And hopefully it would be a stop-gap til we can move out of London!

Thanks for your thoughts
Star

You are 19th on the waiting list for the school that you wanted - remember that some of those kids will come off the waiting list in september as they start at other schools.

You are obviously in a busy area with lots of mobility so lots of kids will likely be moving. How big is the intake, ours is 60 and we have a steady movement of children - from 2 -6 in a year.

Personally I wouldn't send your child to a bad school which is going to put you under lots of stress.

Play the waiting game, phone the office secretaries of the schools you are interested in every month, and see if there is any movement!

"The LA aren't obliged to educate til they're 5 and she's a young one, so that means sept 09, though she would skip reception and go straight into year 1"

You need to consider that the children in reception will transfer into Y1 so unless someone leaves there will not necessarily be a place for your daughter in the class in a years time. The other thing to think about is all the children will have established friendship groups and she will be very much an outsider.

Oh yes, believe me, i have no wish for her to skip a year, not least because no. 3 child is due in December! Plus our council have already made clear she wouldn't be guaranteed a place next year either.

The problem is, the local mothers all say we'll get in to our 1st choice, being number 19 on the list, and probably before September. The council is adamant we haven't got a chance and need to think of alternatives ie, private or rubbish school far away. I don't know who to believe!
The deadlines for acceptances was two weeks ago and she hasn't moved on the list yet.

Thanks for listening!

I am the Queen of Continuing Interest lists (for my area anyway!)

Quite frankly I would take both the council view and local mother's view with pinch of salt.

There are too many unknowns and variables from year to year to predict that. Lists move in fits and starts too, and most people will be on several lists. You will need to accept place that you have been offered, and then move on up from there - it sounds as though you'd almost certainly get in at the non-so--good school near to you, so that's the travelling hassle sorted. Then you stay on the other waiting lists and see what happens by September.

When do you intend to move? It may all be angst for a short while anyway?

I don't understand - didn't you say that rubbish school is marginally closer that your first choice. But then you say the school they offered you will involve a drive or 2 buses? So does it mean your first choice is so far away as well?

The LEA indeed doesn't have to guarantee a place in your preferred choice, but they will have to guarantee a place somewhere from age 5, so I suppose it will be the same one.

I would be very surprised if a wait list didn't come up, especially if you keep calling all the time. You said there were 7 schools in the vicinity, there will surely be some movement, if not before september, then at least within a year.

Hopefully we'll move within 2 years, depending on DH's work. The not-so-good school near us is full but I think if we applied, we'd be fairly high up on the waiting list - though it probably has less mobility as les of its kids go private.

I rang the local private school (very close to us) and they have a place for September but the deposit alone is over £1000. We could afford the fees for one child esp. as it is likely that family would help us out. I've always been massively private education however: i'm state school educated, don't think it should be necessary etc etc. However, am now finding out how shallow my 'principles' really are when it comes ot a choice between not-good school state school and nice local private

It's a bit complicated irisha: there are two rubbish schools I'm talking about: one is not too far but is full. The other is further away and, because of where it is, would require drive/buses; however, it does have places, probably becasue it is ranked as the worst in our council and that is waht the council has offered us.

it's complicated further by the fact that three of our closest schools are technically in another borough (we live on the border between two London councils) and so, because we are not tasx-paying residents for that council, we are absolute bottom of their list - about 180 on their waiting lists grrrr..... very cross about that, as what are you meant to do if you live on a border?

Thanks for comments/advice

whoops, meant to say massively against private education!

That is a very large deposit for private school, I'v never paid more than £50 to get on a list and then £200 to confirm a place - which ususally gets taken off final terms fees.

I agree! i think it's because our area has some very very good state schools (the church ones that we dodn't apply to) that are very difficult to get into. So many people hedge their bets by going for state and private, taking the state if they get it and the private schools are trying to discourage this. I assume that it comes off the year's fees?

it's strange that LEAs administer wait lists for schools, normally it's schools themselves after LEA allocated places. And I had more than one friend getting places by just being persistent and calling regularly to check if place available. I suppose when a place comes up, school secretaries often tempted just to call "that woman who seems really keen and called the other day" rather than actually go by waiting list. Who is there to check? It's not like when LEA allocateds places, and there may be appeals, etc.

Re deposit, it is not anything unusual at all by London standards. It's absolutely standard. There a few very selective academic schools where very few people renege on offers of a place so deposit is like £500-700 and some private catholic schools ask for a small deposit (£250 or £500) but others a very much £1000+

deposit comes off last term's fees usually.

Thanks for replies.

Our LEA manages the waiting list until September and then the schools take them over - then I'm sure it pays to be persistent and make friends with the school office! Unfortunately, not sure if I can hold my nerve until September and find DD to be only, say, sixth on the waiting list. Though she could stay at her (private) nursery for another term if a place was likely to come up at Christmas. Hopefully it won't come to that!

Thanks

S

LA maintained schools no longer control admissions it is all handled centrally by the LA (supposedly fairer system)

Although be careful as some schools/LAs no longer run waiting lists, or don't run them past Reception - they just erase them and start them agian from y1. Ours did this. The reason given? It "creates an expectation."