Learning Times tables

[Parapa]

We have just received a message from our son's teacher that they have started focussing on times tables with the message 'We should not go back to the old school method where we ask the kids eg 4 x 7 and they should answer - that is not necessary. Instead it is the times tables rhymes we should practice ie 2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-18-20 (for the 2 times table).

I must admit that I always learnt the 'old school method' and was wondering what your experience with this method is. Does it work?

How old is the child? Mine were taught counting in twos, so 2,4,6,8. Then later they were taught 1x2, 2x2, 3x2. So both were taught as separate stages of learning. Might be worth asking the teacher

The counting method is best for new learners to avoid cognitive overload. Once they can count up and down the calculation makes more sense. He’ll still learn it, just not yet. Think of it like learning to write letters before learning to write words.
Im guessing your child is year 1? The multiplication and division symbols aren’t introduced until Year 2

Look at Percy Parkers times tables on YouTube.

DS is 9 (we're not in UK , but third year of school). From the message from the teacher it sounds that they will only learn the thymes, and there is no need to learn the (what they call the) 'old school way'.

Personally I think the old school way where we all chanted them regularly and knew them was much better than what's done now. I know teachers say that's just parrot rote learning and doesn't help them understand what they mean, and I agree, so they need to be taught what they mean alongside, but the old way made memorising much better.

Doesn't sound like you are at this point yet with your DC, but we have a box of flash cards and work through those. Also the Tomes Table Rockstars app is used by a lot of kids too. From memory it's 2s, 10s, 3s and 5s in Year 2, then the rest by the end of Year 3. But hopefully some teachers who know will come along.

My DD is 9 & in Yr4 (UK) - they've learnt the old school way & use TT Rockstars every week in school & as homework.
All Yr4s have a Times Table - my DDs is next week where they'll be asked a times table equation & have 6secs to answer (I believe).

In the U.K. it's normal to learn the counting in twos or threes way first before doing the isolated facts.

They would be counting in twos, tens and fives in reception and year 1. They'd then extend that to the times tables.

Here's the info of what I mean: www.gov.uk/government/publications/multiplication-tables-check-information-for-parents

My school did parents maths workshop. They told us to teach it like this. If you are doing the 2 times table. Use maths language multiply, times, lots of, product. Also ask questions can you see a pattern?

That's interesting. Perhaps there are different ways of learning in different countries? My daughter is also 9 (Year 4) and they are expected to be able to know any times table question now immediately - so definitely not by counting up. Not saying that she does but this is the expectation.....
I thought it was ridiculous but it does help their mental maths quite a bit with problems etc if they just know them!

Counting method is fine at first, and may help with understanding.

But knowing your tables, as in what times what = whatever makes a huge difference as they get older to speed in maths. If someone says seven eights to me, then my mind says fifty-six without thinking and that is very useful not to have to think about it.

Thank you all for your input. So I understand the counting in 2s and 3s is important. They have done this for a year or two now. However, it is the learning of eg the 7 time table as 7-14-21, and not as the facts that concerns me (also with no indication that the facts will every be taught, seeing as they call it the 'old school method'). Will see how it turns out.

My personal view, as a primary teacher, is that it’s a mistake to focus too much on the 7-14-21 method at the expense of the old method. I see children in Y6 who can only answer e.g. 6x7 by writing down 7-14-21-28 etc. until they have written down 6 numbers.and reached 42. It takes too long and holds them back in more complex calculations.

Tables is something that parents can really help with. Focus on one table at a time, chant it in the car, on the way to school, in silly voices, backwards, ask random questions on it, ask related division facts, e.g. if you’re working on 7’s ask 56 divided by 7. I like the "tables disco" idea, where children sing along to tables sung to different tunes and rhythms. (Free online). Repetition works.

All children in England take a national tables test near the end of Y4 so you can ask for your child's result to see how they are doing.

I have now idea what the grid pictured above means??

It’s just one way of representing the 2x table. You’re supposed to count the dots to get the total for each multiple of 2. The whole page shows ten groups of 2, 20 dots altogether.

Speaking from my experience (just a secondary English teacher so no expert on primary maths!): I learnt the “chanting” way (6, 12, 18 etc) in the uk when I was 5-7ish then left the British education system and came back after they had done the single fact recall (1X6= 6X6= etc) and I have found it a stupidly large disadvantage since having to trek through 6 12 18 24 30 36 to find an answer. I would start with the “chanting” and then move to fact recall personally. I guess it’s a bit like my frustration with some parents/nurseries obsession with chanting the alphabet which then has to be retaught as phonetic sounds.

I would work through the old way at home. Having that rote learning of the times tables makes such a difference once the kids are older. Just knowing what 7x8 is without thinking is much quicker than counting up to it. And it then obviously will help with division in time

Thank you, we did it in the car (20 min ride to school) in year 2, also insentivised with a tenner per perfectly recalled table.

The little sod(DS) had them all down pat by October half term. IME chanting then testing in the car works ! As does bribery.

Would something like this up on the fridge not be better ?

We had a math specialist come in to school who told us to do it like that. Apparently it reduces cognitive load. We were told learning it parrot style means they only learn up to 12 but understanding the patterns means they can times anything. They did everything very visually. I was amazed as a much older mum. I've never seen maths done like that. Every method was very different from how I learned in the 80s.

Just to offer another angle, I'm 60, and at my school they did the whole chanting thing. I never managed to learn them that way 🤷‍♀️ Passed my maths O level. Not knowing them caused me absolutely no issues whatsoever then or now. I have a first class degree, and am a perfectly competent adult.

Personally, I don't think rote learning works, as it doesn't lead to understanding numbers and patterns, and had these newer methods been used way back then I probably would have leaned them 'off by heart'.

As a parent, just approach them from as many fun angles as possible, it will stick eventually.
We’re in Italy so they had Cuisenaire (sp?) rods at school, Lego bricks at home, colour dominoes, chants and songs. The cancan song was great for 6x.

They both loved the 9x finger trick. Hold down the 4th finger from the left so it gives you 3 fingers up on the left =30 and six on the right=6.
four times nine =36.

I am starting there could be benefits to the chanting just the numbers in order. So will start with that as school is asking and then proceed to doing the ‘facts’ at home if they don’t do them at school. Thanks!

We should not go back to the old school method where we ask the kids eg 4 x 7 and they should answer-that is not necessary

It sounds like they are just pointing out that is testing them on the times tables and only needs to happen once they’ve learnt them. Learn them first.

Sign up to Times Table rockstars of your children are in any way competitive, it is a great tool