Independent school uniform policy - religion

[SAH86]

Hi there , I was just after some advice from anyone who has experience of independent schools please. We’ve seen a number of them in and around our area in Buckinghamshire and all except one had a very accommodating approach towards religious head coverings when it comes to their uniform- one school that we really liked said they wouldn’t permit this (although they allow hats that are specified in their uniform policy). I’m meeting with the trustees to understand why they don’t allow this as they haven’t explained this so far. But I just wanted to understand what their rationale could be before I meet them if anyone has any ideas? They happen to be a faith school and on our very first tour said they are welcoming of people of all faiths and none ..so this surprised us.

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@Needmorelego Do you see serious sports women with a head covering for religion? Footballers? Tennis players? Cricketers? Women are actually held back by this. They rarely take sport up!

Skull caps sit on top of the mans head, and is secured in place. However, they are free to take them off during sport as it is easier and not frowned upon.

Turbans for men and replaced with a patka for sport, which is much smaller and more flexible and sit on top of the mans head and covers their buns.

Hijabs are not at all flexible. They are there to cover the whole head of a girl, as well as their necks and shoulders. They allow for only the face to be seen. It is hugely frowned upon for the girls to take them off, and would be a huge barrier in place for them to play sport. They are worn solely for modesty.

Which conservative Christian religions in the UK make their young women wear head coverings?? It would be incredibly rare and no where near as dominant as the hijab.

You personally have never known a girl not be able to play sport because she is wearing a head cover, however, there will be thousands of girls who will not be participating in sport due to their religious coverings or their religion in general.

@Sdpbody there are many many styles of hijabs. Not all completely cover a females hair and head.
Sports ones can be tight fitting almost like a swimming cap. They sell sports hijabs in Decathlon.
Brethren Christian females wear a symbolic head scarf - although it's more of just a small triangle of material than a large headscarf.
They also wear long skirts - never trousers.
Some parents may give permission to wear tracksuit bottoms for sport, but some might not.

@Sdpbody here's Malala wearing a hijab while also showing her hair.
(picture may take a moment to show)

@Sdpbody here's a tennis player wearing a hijab.

@Labraradabrador , why should religious beliefs be prioritised over the uniform policy? The school has a right to set its own uniform policy and parents have a right to take their children elsewhere. Good for children (and their parents) to understand that the whole world doesn’t have to bend to accommodate their every whim.

@Soontobe60 , exactly what I was thinking.

And you can imagine how easy it would be to play sport in this?

I think you are being purposely obtuse.

Women and girls are always disproportionately and negatively affected by religious clothing. They have no place in the Western world and absolutely no business being in schools.

@Soontobe60 , what message are the little boys getting from this. Totally at odds with western values in my opinion.

@Sdpbody I would assume that a Muslim hijab wearing female that wears the loose style would switch to a sports one when doing sport.
Have you watched the TV show 9-1-1 Lonestar? The character Marjan is a female Muslim firefighter. When she is in her civilian clothes she wears a flowing style hijab. When in her firefighter uniform she wears a tight fitting one.
That's not exactly complicated to consider that clothes will vary in style depending on what you are doing 🤔
I would think that Hasidic Jewish males would have more problems doing sport with the religious clothing they wear.

@Needmorelego is she elite? Or just advertising! Show me someone in a competition at elite level wearing a head covering like that? Virtually impossible to find.

@TizerorFizz I have no clue as I don't follow sport.
I did see photos of hijab wearing sports women at the Olympics though.

No. I don’t watch that sort of tv. I like professional sport at a high level but I watch the Olympics. Most Muslim women who play a sport look like everyone else or don’t play at all. The Pakistan women’s hockey and cricket teams look like all the other teams. So if countries want success enough, women get rid of hair covering. Muslim Women uk still thinks that culturally there’s a long way to go. I agree. Picking out a few outliers is not what most serious sports women are doing.

Many Jewish boys choose to wear a kippah from age 3.

Choosing and required are not the same thing. A uniform policy in a private school can choose to say no.

Why should achieving a certain consistent look be prioritised over student and family comfort?

I will repeat that a school that cares more about how students look than how they feel (comfortable, respected, valued) is not a good school. There are lots of reasons why uniform might not work for a given child - I have a nd child who cannot deal with certain items of clothing, and I expect school to understand and accommodate. Fortunately dc go to an excellent school with the right set of priorities and it has never been an issue.

As someone who grew up in a country where uniforms are not the norm I find the uk fixation on uniform rather anachronistic . the majority of my professional team show up to work in jeans, and as a former management consultant remember being asked by a client to stop showing up in a suit because it made everyone uncomfortable. The working world has moved on, but we still treat our children like air hostesses from the fifties.

It’s good there are some schools that don’t permit religious attire. It increase choice and diversity.

Just like allowing men into Oxford’s last remaining women’s college reduced choice and diversity.

@Labraradabrador because independent schools set their own rules. If they don’t suit you then choose another school.

Fine, it is their remit, but I would argue it isn’t a very good school if they don’t care for their children.

Private Schools prioritise uniformity and belonging . Not being different in terms of how dc look. The uniform promotes a sense of everyone being valued equally and upholds the values of the school.

DDs were at school with quite a few girls from Saudi Arabia. Rules followed in Saudi were joyfully dispensed with here. By their mums and dads too! It’s not a requirement to dress in a covered way unless society makes it a requirement. A Saudi wedding and a western wedding - totally different. It seems people don’t agree on head coverings for Muslims and women sports teams in Pakistan have ditched them. Good for them.

Not all private schools are like this, fortunately- ours very much celebrate the individual over uniformity. They understand that holding everyone to the exact same arbitrary standard is not real equality, and valuing children equally means giving equal consideration of individual needs.

@Labraradabrador Well no, not all but a Jewish school would stay true to its roots. I don’t think those parents see it as arbitrary . They see it as the reason for the school. It’s therefore reasonable for others to have a similar religious ethos or require identity via uniform. I always found it very important that we didn’t have special cases and arguments. Parents either want that or they don’t. You don’t and that’s fine.

@Icanthinkformyselfthanks

Ironic user name.
I agree and quoting something from a time well before proper laws prohibiting men attacking women, and education etc is odd.

Also on such threads we have been told that it's not written to cover yourself up but that's it's cultural and traditional nothing to do with Islam

I also understand why some people don't think it's a big deal.

For me, a poster mentioned earlier about children being able to express their religiou".s beliefs and that's the line that struck me "children being able to express their religious beliefs

I believe children can be instructed and introduced to their parents beliefs whatever they are, jehova witness Catholic, wiccan, atheist, agnostic, gothic, far left labour, far right but but but...

With the massive caveat that we are all born absolutely free, no one can choose are fate and destiny, we should vigoursly ask why and question everything and if the children reject the faith, the football club, the Labour Party... That's their choice.

As adults they can properly and freely choose.

I say this as a lapsed catholic who sent my dc to a very catholic ethos school which they both wholeheartedly, rejected.

Fine.