School appeal

[ChoudhryG]

Hi . I need some information regarding primary school appeal. Hi. I need some information regarding a primary school appeal. My younger son has been given a place to start reception at a school this September. However, my older son was not accepted into the same school and was instead offered a place in year one at another nearby school. What are my chances of getting my older son a place in the same school as my younger son?
Me and my h7sband work in the Nhs . I am local but my husband is not . So I have to run the show of pick ups and drop off and juggling two schools seems verr hard.

Is your older son on the waiting list for your younger son’s school ? What position is he ?

Are you new to your area because I’m wondering why older son’s school wasn’t first choice for your younger son if the same school was important to you?

Have you tried asking the council for the name of a school who can accommodate both children ?

Your older son won’t get a sibling priority place until your younger son starts at his school. This might bump up his waiting list place.

Hi, wiser people will hopefully post.

But, are these late applications? Have you contacted both schools to find out what their class sizes are? It may be there is a space in reception at the school your yr 1 child has been accepted in.

Jobs, transport and childcare have no sway in appeals.

Is this an in year transfer? In which case it's on availability only so depends on someone leaving. I was allocated two separate schools when I moved in year and had to home school until I got a place for the younger child at her sisters school. Type of job other than military will have no sway, nor will having unusual living arrangements with your husband (plenty of single parents do all drop offs). Took me 3 weeks to get a place for the older one at the local school and a further 4 weeks to get a place for the younger as up to year 2 has strict class sizes

I assume you've recently moved and are trying to get both into local schools? Otherwise my first question would be why didn't you apply for a place at your eldest's current school for your youngest?

As above, your first point of call needs to be enquiring whether there's space for the youngest at the school your eldest has been allocated, or whether there's anywhere else local with space for both of them. They can't magic a place up for your eldest at the other school if they're currently full in Year 1, although when your youngest starts he will get siblings priority and possibly move up the waiting list. Do you know where he is currently on this?

Yes we are new to Uk. This is my first timr appplying for schools i yhe UK. My older sons school was the last one on my list it does not have a good ofstead plus its church if england school. My younger sons school is non faith and has better ofstead rating. The schools says they are willing to take another kid in year one just so that both siblingd can be together from sept but the local authority does not allow it.

I could potentially put both in the scchool but id rather change the other way since my youmger sons school in over all better than the other one.
I have put him on the waiting list for in year admission in year one.

In year 1 they are limited due to the infant class size rules which makes an appeal harder to win.

when your younger son has started the school then your elder son would probably move up the waiting list if they prioritise siblings but that doesn’t guarantee a place.

You don't have any grounds for appeal. You just need to be on waiting lists and wait for a place to come up and then move schools. It's hard but they can't make space

I had heard, though not sure if this is area specific, that schools can overrule the local authority when it comes to keeping siblings together, but only once one has already started.

It's possible class sizes might still limit this, the case I knew of was year 4 I think.

Honestly, I’d put the both in the same school from September. Having them both together is far more important than some arbitrary Ofsted rating. A school near me has just gone from Outstanding to Requires Improvement. Yet nothing has changed - same staff, same curriculum.
Your eldest could be waiting until Year 3 before he gets a place at the other school.

Can you start your older son at the younger son’s school before September? The school can’t save a spot in younger son’s school because somebody might need it before September. If there’s a spot in younger son’s school, take it now rather than risk somebody else taking it first.

'Better' is such a subjective term. Have you actually visited the school to form your own opinion? Personally I wouldn't pay any attention to what Ofsted think. Many children absolutely thrive in schools Ofsted deem to require improvement. Often the reasons for this grading are so superficial and not actually what matters to parents. Definitely do your own research on all schools in the area. What is 'good' for one family/child might not be a good school for others and visa versa.

The rules for class sizes are different for infants. Year 4 classes can usually make exceptions to go over PAN in such circumstances but the rules are different under Year 3 due to staff to children ratios.

Is your son at top of the waiting list? There may be a place come available soon.

Unfortunately, the council are only obliged to find a school place... it does have to be in a school you chose, they don't have to keep siblings together, and parental logistics isn't a factor.

If there is 30 children in an infant class, they can't take another except in very limited circumstances (such as twins or no place available locally)

Hey @ChoudhryG yes as others say, there are no grounds for appeal here unfortunately. Infant Class Size (often written as ICS) rules mean the school is not allowed to have more than 30 in a class (this is for reception, years 1 and 2). Is your older child in year 1 now and year 2 in Sept? Not that it makes that much difference (tho see my point below).

I would certainly go an look at the schools and see what you think. Just because one is judged better by Ofsted, as others say, doesn't always mean that much.

You then have two choices I guess:

• Start them in the different schools and hope a waiting list place comes up in year 1 (or year 2 if that's what you need) at your younger child's school - once your DS2 is in reception, your DS1 will jump up the waiting list, but meanwhile you have to deal with the logistics. If DS1 is in year 2 in Sept, you will only have that for a year as school will almost certainly be able to accommodate him from start of year 3
• Start them both at the same school right now. This would for me depend on what we thought of the school they could both have a place at. If it was acceptable - nearby, local friends, nice atmosphere - then I would probably go for this option to avoid a year of complex pick ups and drop offs.

You may have heard this, but it isn't true in England. If the school is full then the school cannot decide to take a child. They would have to go to appeal, and generally keeping siblings together is considered a weaker appeal.
This is also a infant age, so probably infant class size is 30 in a class, which is the amount legally they can take.

You also need to check if sibling priority is true for the older sibling. Most are, but there is one school round here that certainly used to only be sibling priority for younger siblings.

The schools says they are willing to take another kid in year one just so that both siblingd can be together from sept but the local authority does not allow it.

Not only the LA, but the Admissions Code, by which the school is legally bound, won't let them do it if it takes an infant class above 30, or a full year group with reception less than 30 if it will cause the classes the year moves on into to go over 30 (e.g. where PAN is 45 and reception is taught as 23 plus 22, but yr1 and yr2 as three classes of 30 between them). Or if there is a mixed year class at e.g. 29, but the space is in the wrong year group (because that space would have to be offered if a child in the correct year group applied, taking the class to 31).

IME quite a few HTs say things like your quote - they don't want to be seen as the bad guys (and at least one I've come across was actually a little hazy on the law; life is full of little surprises).

In my experience, Headteachers do not understand the School Admissions Code and often tell parents they'd be willing to take another child, but in reality they'd be breaching the code.