How do you explain war to an innocent 5yo?!

[Smithagain]

DD1's reading book tonight was an ORT Magic Key adventure, featuring soldiers hunting for someone's father. This is Oxford Reading Tree level 7, so aimed at infant pupils. Nothing gory, but set in the middle of the civil war. It was quite explicit about the fact that if the soldiers found daddy they would kill him.

DD1 is completely mystified about why everyone was so scared and what the soldiers were up to. It's lovely that she is so innocent, TBH. I found myself at a bit of a loss when she asked me what was happening. Does a 5 year old need to start knowing about these things? How could I have helped her understand the story without completely robbing her of the belief that people are nice and don't want to hurt each other? .

(We don't have a TV, so she isn't exposed to the news etc, which probably makes her more naive than most, but still.)

Here you go: Most war is caused by people who want land from other people so they start to fight for it. The other side tries to defend itself but they both get carried away and they forget about the people who around them. We live in a country where most people have alot of things, those who have less are looked after by the government so we are quite safe from war. Our government sends our army to look after other people in different countries because it's the right thing to do, we should always look after other people.

ORT level 7 is probably aimed at about age 6-7y, so a bit older. But I know what you mean - my 5y would be the same.

However the little boy next door, same age, is very aware of these topics. He and DD were playing lego this weekend and DD was making a rabbit; he was making a concentration camp for POW!!! DD didn't have a clue. But teh lttle boy took it all in his stride, and was just interested not morbidly so.

Thanks both of you. I guess this is the downside of learning to read quickly. She is just getting to the point where some of the themes are a bit beyond her experience.

I like Avenanap's explanation - especially "they both get carried away". Part of the problem was that both the soldiers and the father looked like jolly pleasant, friendly people, so it was hard for her to grasp why they might be fighting. Which is probably quite realistic when I think about some of the wars that are going on right now .

We have some lego knights and horses - perhaps they will be going into battle sometime soon!

I think if it was me I would veto that particular book. ORT stage 7 books like that are more suitable for older kids with SEN and there is no way they should be given to a five year old.

My son read a magic key book about children going back in time to the second world war bombings in London. It was stage 8 and he did get a lot out of it. I found it hard enough to explain to him why houses got bombed in London and children were evacuated to the country at the age of 6.

I told my son that war is an extreme form of bullying. Ie. one country decides to bomb the hell out of people in another country to get what they want. My son then asked me if George Bush was a bully in Iraq. Prehaps 6 year olds are not so naive and innocent as we think.

ds (rec) hasn't been given any ORT books since level 6, more to widen his reading scope, so we haven't had this. But I agree that the later stage books could be inappropriate, I would talk to the teacher about reading round a level rather than just doing ORT.

my ds skipped the ORT when he started reception because he could already read. They were getting some books from the junior school for him, some of which were unsuitable as they contained violent material so I started giving him books to take to school. He read Horrid Henry and Roald Dahl. If you think the books are not suitable, read it first and give her something else. I have tried to protect my son from the nasties of the world. He has no toy guns, swords, knives etc, however, when he goes to other childrens houses they all have these things so he plays with them. I took him to the part with one of his friends from school last week, his friend took a couple of plastic guns with him and he and my ds were playing 'shoot the chav'. I was so embarrased. I have explained war to him in the same way that I wrote to you a couple of days ago. He was about 4, then he sat on the sofa and started crying because he knew I would die one day and he would never be able to see me again. It was very sad.

I think avenap's explanation is good. Ds (nearly 5) is more aware of war than your dd but it's OK - he isn't traumatised by it.

We're very big on history in our house so I would say even dd (3) understands a little about war from stories (eg the Norman invasion) I have told them.

I have always taken the view that it is good to tell them that most people are lovely most of the time but that occassionally bad things happen. War is when one group of people want something or believe in something so much that they will fight another group of people for it. Each group get a smaller number of people to do the fighting for them and they are called soldiers.

I suppose I have also told them that while I believe that committing acts of agression is always wrong, violence as a form of defence for themselves or others is not always wrong and that in the imperfect world we have, some things some times are worth fighting for (I realise that this may not be a moajority view).

Some things are worth fighting for is how we got onto the subject of war. Ds heard the song 'Free Nelson Mandela' on the radio and asked me who NM was. Was a bit tricky to explain apartheid to a 3yo! Not that SA had a war as such, but it developed from there. And asking about the war memorial in town.

I was very traumatised by the notion of death as a child (still am a bit) so have tried to discuss it in the same way as I would discuss cabbages with the dcs since they were babies. They are not currently at all upset by the notion that people eventually wear out and "stop going" or that some times doctors can't fix what is wrong.

Apartheid would be dealt with along the lines of "in some countries they have had rules which say it is alright to treat someone badly because of the colour of their skin, whether they are a girl or a boy or whether/if they believe in a particular god. These rules are silly and wrong. We have lots of rules in this country to stop people doing things like that".

A lot more problems would be caused by the mention of God and me trying to explain that. Dd asked over Easter "why did they kill Jesus and why did he come back to life?". I was at a loss for words.

Lots of good approaches here - thanks for your ideas. I think I am coming round to the idea that I need to introduce a bit more knowledge of the wider world - and the fact it is not all good. Particularly if she is going to keep reading a year or two ahead of her age.

Maybe we will start watching Newsround on the web, or something.

Interestingly, Goosey, we are Christians and she seems to have absorbed the Easter story without any anxiety whatsoever, despite the fact that she knows Jesus as someone we chat to on a daily basis! So I'm not sure why the idea that he was killed is OK, but someone threatening Biff and Chip's new friend is scary. Such is the mind of a five year old!

Smith, ds was quite happy about Jesus dying and being risen again - accepted that no problem - but couldn't get his head round Good Friday. 'WHY is it called 'Good', Mummy, when Jesus died?' Nothing I said would convince him - he's insistent that it should either be Bad Friday or, if adults insist on the positive, Fantastic Friday.

Loving Fantastic Friday!!

I know, I was pondering whether we should do the same for other important dates in the church calendar: Wonderful Whit; Excellent Easter; Cool Candlemass; Happy Holy Innocents; Astonishing All Saints.

And of course Powerful Pentecost!

In fact, I am running some children's activities for Pentecost - I can feel a theme coming along!!!