Confused Mum - Selective NW London prep vs State

[NWLMama]

Hi,
I know there are a lot of threads on here about state vs private, but I have a specific question for which I'd be grateful to receive advice and apologies for the long message. First, I realise I am in a super lucky position and this is very much a first world problem.

I have two DCs - when I had my first born, we didn't know whether or not we would have a second. And with all the craziness with some of the selective north London independent schools requiring you to register at an early age, that's what we did. By the time we had our second, we thought - since we had already paid the registration fees, we may as well put DC through the 4+ assessments.

Now we have a second DC and with the cost of living crisis, our funds have become super tight. Before we got any offers, we thought - if our eldest didn't get any offers from one of the highly selective schools, we would put DC in a local state school and try again at 7+ or 11+ (giving us time to save more). However, our eldest DC received (much to our surprise) an offer from one of the highly selective prep schools that has a track record for getting half of their students into one of the top private secondary schools in this country. We accepted the offer and paid the deposit on the basis this would buy us more time to consider our situation before the first term's fees are due. Now that deadline is creeping up on us.

I did not attend school here so I am only just learning about the education system in the UK. My eldest currently attends a pre-prep which DC loves. I recognise that it's still early to tell, but my second DC seems brighter than my first in that my second is hitting milestones much earlier (which I realise could be from being the second and not being a Covid baby). The other thing to note is that I have applied for local state schools, but the one we are likely to get isn't great - it is OK, but it is no. 6 on my preference list. Based on offers made during previous years, we are borderline as to whether we would get our no. 1 choice by Sept and National Offer Day coincides with the day we must give notice to withdraw from this selective prep (before the 1st term's fees are due). So if we do end up getting our no. 1 choice of state school, it is likely to be after National Offer Day. I would appreciate your views on the following questions:

1. Is it really worth attending a highly selective prep school in London vs a good local state school? I know the student: teacher ratios are generally better in a highly selective prep school, facilities are better etc. Is there anything else I should consider?
2. Could I get by with sending my eldest to an OK state school first and supplementing with tutoring and extracurricular activities and trying for the 7+ or 11+?
3. Are the 7+ and 11+ as horrendous as people make it out to be?
4. One alternative is to send my second to a state school first on the basis that my first needs more help but to then try for the 7+ or 11+ later. I do feel guilty about the different treatment of the two children.

Many thanks for your advice - from a very confused mother.

1. You get what you pay for. If you go private, its a much higher spend per pupil thant state. That's the bottom line.
2. Loads of parents do this. Doing the extracurricular yourself is a complete pain in the ass, and very time consuming , and you'll have to prep your DC for 7+ or 11+ exams yourself and ideally with a bit of tutoring.
3. Not really. Angst ridden parents with money but not vvery bright children are the most stressed , if you have a bright child and have prepped them, they should be fine. All the kudos of a place at WUS or whatever plays into it.
4. With the greatest respect, gaining a place at 4+ doesn't mean anything really, its a bit of a guess if the child is gifted or bright. Mine got a place at a top prep school at 4+, its meaningless compared to getting into say Westminster at say 13+ . The fact you're even questoning fees, I'd go with the state till 8 at the very least and build a war chest, tutor them from Y1 at state primary , pay for private extracurricular that they'd be getting at prep (swimming in reception, extra sport, etc). Sending two DC to private school while living in London isn't 'a first world problem', 90% of London (overall) parents go state all the way, granted depending on what borough you live, that goes up and down, higher than 10% in SW and W London for example.

Just because a school is difficult to get into doesn’t mean it is a good fit for your child. Are you excited about the school? Do you think your child will love it and thrive? You don’t really talk about the school other than its selectivity, but kids tend to do best in an environment where they are happy, relaxed and feel supported.

You seem very focused on the stats, but these stats are kind of meaningless when it is a selective school - it doesn’t really tell you if the results were down to good selection or value added by the school. It doesn’t really matter if half of the children make it into your desired secondary school if that half would have made it in anyways. Conversely a nonselective may not have stellar headline results, but do amazing things with individual children to help them achieve their potential.

i would recommend you take a step back and think about which school your child will be happiest at, where they will be nurtured but also appropriately challenged. Fwiw I agree with @BusySwan that you get what you pay for in education BUT I don’t think all private schools are worthwhile overall, and even excellent schools my not be excellent for all the children they admit.

Hi OP, is your DC1 a girl or a boy? There are a lot more options for boys at 7+ compared to girls.

It also depends on how naturally bright and ahead your DC is - they might feel bored if left unchallenged as the class sizes are a lot bigger. Are they near the top of their pre prep or just average?

if money is tight, go state for primary and save for private at secondary. fees are likely to go up and it would be worse for your child to have to leave the private school they started at.

go visit some nice state primaries in NW3 - they are all good and supportive and can give your child a great place to learn. And if you decide to go private later, you can add on some tutoring easily.

Thanks @BusySwan. Out of interest, have you done the 7+ or 11+ from a state school? Just wondering how you have found it if you have. What I meant by first world problem is that I realise I'm lucky to have this "problem" to even consider, not that this is a problem that most London parents face. If I send DC to a state school and tutor from (say) Reception, will DC be too bored going to school each day?

Thanks @Labraradabrador - OH and I loved the school. I have toured about 15 schools (both private and state) and this was one of my top 3 - the kids were confident, happy and the teaching seems world class. We applied for a total of private schools and said we would only really consider sending DC down the private route if DC got an offer from one of 2 schools. Our criteria for these two schools was (in no order): 1. Level of teaching and variety of subjects available 2. How confident, articulate and happy the children seemed during the tours 3. The schools it fed into 4. Proximity to home 5. Facilities 6. Extracurricular activities. 7. Feedback from current parents

It is always difficult to tell if DC would love the school based on a tour that we have done without DC and DC is still very young, but DC has absolutely loved their pre-prep and this prep seems to be an extension of the pre-prep. That said, DC's happiness is always our priority and we would not hesitate to change schools if it were not the right environment for our DC.

Thanks @Ncjolly - that's a really good point. That is my concern - if I put DC into a state school and tutor for the 7+ or 11+, won't DC get bored and potentially resent going to school? DC is bright, but certainly no genius. I get that the 4+ assessments are not necessarily an indication of an individual's success or how bright that child is, but about half of DC's class got into highly selective preps. When I spoke to DC's teacher, she says DC knows all the phonics and maths that DC is supposed to know at this age. None of the things she tells us to work on relate to academics.

Thanks @parietal. I have visited about 8 state schools already (and a total of 15 private and state primary schools) and I don't think we will get an offer from my favourite primary on National Offer Day. If we did, I would certainly lean towards state primary for at least a few years. Do you think tutoring would mean that DC might be bored in class if DC is in a state primary for a few years?

No, but I know many parents who have gone from pretty average London primary to top private school at 7+ and 11+.

Reception to Y3 was a bit of a waste of money if I'm honest, I think the differences between private and state really kick in around 7+.

No way your DC gets bored. Reception they wont miss anything, and no need to tutor, apart from ensuring extra PE like swimming which most state schools don't offer at 4+ but most pre-preps do. I'd also introduce a musical instrument , like violin or cello. Maybe do some language with them, French or Spanish. Do lots of book reading and maths and that will be enough for Reception, anything else is too much and even at the top private school that's all they'll be getting basically, its all mine got.

Then from Y1, introduce a tutor, look for one in reception, a good one wont take your child on till Y1, so keep that in mind. Build on the extra support, sport and music lessons , then go for 7+ or 11+, at 11+ you'll have such a bigger choice in London, including all the selective state schools.

Many thanks @BusySwan - that is really useful advice.

One thing to keep in mind about tutors for pre prep (eg 4-7 years). Children get quite tired and stimulated at school at this age and they will spend 6+ hrs at school whether it's selective private or state. Getting the child to do more phonics and math and generally do "extra homework" with a tutor at 5-6-7 yo can be quite challenging as they are tired - want to play etc. Also if their friends are not doing this and generally having a more stress free life it might become harder to motivate them (this for 11+). In selective privates all the hard work is done during their time in school, after 3pm they can relax at least at the start. Also other students would usually have quite driven parents so the peers will be moving at the same pace, read more books at home, do an extra language etc.
Having said that it's a lot of money and definitely cheaper to go with tutoring + active parents involvement and get in at 11+

P.s. I am assuming you have a space at NLCS or Highgate..?

Going private at that age, with a very bright child, is a waste of money. They will get into even the best schools later with a bit of tutoring so they know how to do eg verbal reasoning.

State til eight is a good idea. (Or all the way through if you have good ones!)

With a tutor from year two, lots of reading at home, music lessons (maybe consider joining them up to a church choir if music is a strength), sports clubs (supplemented by one to one sports training if they show talent), ballet/dance and swimming lessons, on top of state primary school, I don’t think they will get bored! In addition, speech and drama lessons and/or a drama club would be good for their confidence and self presentation. There’s also riding, sailing and skiing to squeeze in - probably in the holidays. Sorting all this out and ferrying them around will be a full time job though.