Does this Year 3 set up sound difficult to you?

[Rainallnight]

Bit of a long story.

DD (7) is in Year 3 and has begun to struggle in school. Parent teacher meeting last week, we were told she’s quite behind in maths and has started to refuse to do lessons she finds difficult.

We are gutted and obviously we need to sort this with DD, and perhaps look into maths tuition.

However, I’m also trying to figure out the role that the classroom situation is playing in DD’s lack of engagement.

The class is challenging. There are a number of kids with ‘big personalities’ - quite talkative and boisterous.

There around also 5 or 6 kids with SEN. Two of the mums of kids with SEN have told me they don’t feel like their kids are being properly supported in class. One of them regularly runs out of the classroom, another does his work on the floor, another seems to be allowed a lot of screen time in the classroom.

DD, who herself may be some SEN, has begun to perceive all of this as ‘other people not having to do their work’.

Together with the boisterous kids, I think the classroom sounds chaotic.

The TA is apparently not present in the afternoons and is out of the classroom delivering interventions in the morning. So the teacher is on her own most of the time.

At the parent teacher meeting, the teacher laid out all of DD’s issues but didn’t have any suggestions or a plan for what to do.

Thank you for reading if you’ve got this far!

My question is, is this just how it is in the underfunded classrooms of our schools at the moment? Or should there be something achool should be doing that I should be pushing for?

We have a longer meeting with the teacher about DD tomorrow.

Thank you very much for reading. I’m so worried.

Hello, teacher here. I totally understand why you're worried. The short answer is that, yes, that is how classrooms are in schools. Many Year 3 classrooms wouldn't even have a ta available every morning. However. It isn't OK that the teacher has told you all the problems, and not come up with some kind of a plan, even if that plan is to advise you what you could work on with her at home to make the most difference. It may not be possible for her to do anything much in the classroom beyond trying to check in with her each lesson, or giving her e.g. extra supportive vocabulary sheets. Presumably she doesn't take part in any of the existing interventions? You could always check with the teacher that none of them would be suitable for her. I would go into the meeting and ask for details of which topics she is struggling with, and recommendations for apps or websites or books to support her with these at home. Ideally the teacher would approach it as 'x needs support with z topic. In class we will try to do this, but it would be much quicker and easier for her to catch up if you did xyz at home. ' Does that make sense? Best of luck. It's so incredibly difficult in the classroom trying to cram in all the curriculum that we legally have to cover, and there's basically no capacity to help those falling behind catch up.

Thank you so much for replying.

God, that sounds incredibly challenging. Things weren’t as difficult in Years 1 and 2, with the same class, so I’ve been wondering if it’s perhaps the teacher. But maybe the kids are getting older and more difficult (DD included, evidently!); and of course the curriculum must be getting more challenging as they get older.

DD is adopted and is generally quite anxious. She’s always needed to feel like she’s got a close relationship with an adult in the room (either TA or teacher), and that’s worked out quite well so far. But it’s just not possible this year because the teacher is so thinly stretched so I think she just feels somewhat adrift.

Ugh, I don’t know what I’m going to do.

You mention that you suspect SEN - if so I would get the ball rolling on an assessment if you haven’t already. Wait time in our area is 3 YEARS if you go via NHS. We are going private and it is still 6 months.

we have also experienced refusal to do work in school. We do extra work at home where we can provide 1:1 support, and that helps, but the teacher really matters here. In Y1 we had this, and teacher struggled to get dd to engage. Dd has a lot of anxiety over making mistakes and can be quite challenging when she feels stuck. Y2 we have a really exceptional teacher who manages dd beautifully and it has gone from being the main issue to a non issue. Dd was feeling stuck at a certain point and teacher says fine, you don’t need to write anything but I want you to think about so that you can do it tomorrow. Minor adjustment but it de-escalated the situation for dd while also kept her accountable for completing her work- she came back the next day and did all of the previous day + current day in one go. Our y1 teacher was lovely, but just less experienced with SEN and needed more support crafting adjustments.

Bless her. I just wish there was more ability to provide the support all our individuals need. I wonder whether her current teacher is aware of her need for this relationship? Realistically, at ks 2 the ta is used for interventions and she won't get that relationship with her. But could you find a way to give her that moment with the teacher each day? It would have to be something that took seconds, as the teacher will be run ragged but I'm thinking things like having a job that she does each day first thing that she then reports to the teacher that it's done and the teacher says well done/gives her some kind of sticker or somethjng for? Just to get that positive one to one interaction? May not be practical for their set up, but worth exploring.

And @Labraradabrador makes a good point - teachers have different levels of experience, and handovers between teachers dont always mention everythjng, so potentially using the meeting to work with the teacher to craft a plan for how to react when she e.g. refuses to work that you know will work for her, might help.

All really helpful, thank you so much. Yes, DD is the same, has major anxiety over mistakes so I think now it’s just tipped over into not trying.

And that affects working at home - she just doesn’t want to try.

Thinking up some strategies to help the teacher manage it is a really good idea @Depressedbarbie

Is there any support outside the classroom with a Special Needs teacher where she might feel more confident to take help and to work in a quieter environment even a few times a week? I am in lreland where this might be available depending on the level of needs and l find some children really thrive in this environment. It would meet her need for a special contact too as that teacher usually takes a huge interest in their particular children.
Otherwise don't panic. Get an idea from the teacher what areas she is struggling with and try and spend a SHORT time each day helping her. Easter holidays would be a good time as she won't be tired from school. Get some computer ideas from the teacher and set her up with these. Dicuss with the teacher if she recommends an assessment for your dd and proceed with this. Try not to let your worry make you get overfocused on your dd but make it a nice time to work together and bring maths into everyday life more eg time/ baking/ measuring/ short tables practice in the car etc.
Hit the Button is a very useful site online for learning tables and getting quicker with numbers..5 mins a day.

If you can afford a maths tutor then I would suggest that. You say she doesn’t want to do work at home but with a tutor it’s a different dynamic & she’d likely be more compliant. This will help her catch up and become more confident.

My kid is year 3 and I was worried that he wouldn't get the same support he had in year 2 and obviously there are more expectations, I thought he would struggle. Actually the school are good at keeping him accountable for his work and encouraging his independence which is working well. If I was you I would want to know what they have put in place to support DD and what they are planning to put in place. If you suspect she has sen then the senco should be working with her ( even if it's undiagnosed). Good luck and I hope things work out well for her.

I agree with this in theory, BUT bear in mind that the ta is fully occupied, and the teacher is stretched thin trying to manage the needs in the class. Eveey class is different, and the workload difference can be huge depending on the needs. There wont be any other staff, and 'support' can't be magiced up from nothing. So I think the most productive way forward is for the op to come with ideas and specific questions to the meeting, to support the teacher to give realistic minor adjustments to the op's child in class ans work out what they can do at home. That way, there's a chance that something practical might happen and it won't just be a case of bring fobbed off with words and promises of 'support' because the teacher feels under attack. Not all teachers are great, but there is a strong possibility that the teacher themselves are despairing and frustrated that they can't give all the individuals in their class what they need.

How were her ks1 sats?

Does she know times tables?
Maths starts ramping up y3 and y4. Try some cgo books at home.

Does your school have ELSA’s? DD is also adopted and struggled at times but knowing she had an ELSA session once a week worked wonders.

Matthew Syed wrote a series of books. One is called ‘you are awesome’. You can pick it up second hand for around £3.00. It’s a great book. I read it in one evening. Then I read it to my child. Then my child read it again alone. This was when dc was in year 1 and was going through a perfectionism phase.

Dc really struggled with making mistakes until that book, crying when an answer was wrong. I was worried where this may lead. The book made a huge difference. I would bring up examples from it for years as would my child. It’s worth buying and reading.

I’m a teacher at a state primary. It is cohorts like this that have put me off sending my children to over-crowded state schools. They’ll be going to a local private school - where there are small classrooms, and proper sen provision.

If I were you, I’d be looking for a new class, or school.

Not all classrooms are like this. It depends on the year group, it depends on the teacher and it depends on the leadership. I'd be looking around at other schools if that's an option to be honest. You shouldn't have to be supporting teachers to do their job properly.

Can you ask her teacher to print out the curriculum or go on the school website and find the maths curriculum for her year and work on these areas a little at home? However it's important to teach her the same way she'll be taught at school. For example subtraction with no exchanging before subtraction with exchanging

The Twinkl website has printable worksheets and maths games

@Rainallnight Does your DD get pupil premium as she is adopted? Although it’s not a personal budget, in the circumstances you describe, I would expect some intervention in the classroom. As the school can afford a TA for the class it seems odd to me that they are not in the classroom. You have 20% plus send and other DC who are challenging behaviourally. So around 1/3 of the class are a challenge. A TA doing intervention out of the classroom isn’t a great use of their expertise. Most TAs work in the classroom so dc are integrated into the lesson but get extra help to do their work.

Sometimes extra prep is needed by dc so they can progress with the curriculum and no child should feel like this at age 7. So if she generates PP for the school, could you talk to the school about how that money is being used to ensure your DD makes progress? Thats the key word: progress. That’s what PP money is for. Ask what strategies are in place to support her and enthuse her. Is she set work she can actually do or does she need revision to access the curriculum? This can be done by the TA in the classroom but a teacher will find it impossible. I would question the school about how they envisage DD making progress if she cannot engage in the lessons. My gut reaction is that you have been given excuses but no sensible plan to help her.