All Through vs Prep School

[Belledd]

Does any parent have a view on this topic?

We have a DD and the schools we are targeting are London top tier selective prep and all through schools (we are open to moving).

My partner thinks going to a top prep school is better despite the fact we will have to do the 11+. He said a top prep schools will prep them well (compared to all-through/state sector) so it shouldn't be too stressful (and bit of stress and challenge is good for them) and there will be more options at 11+ also (e.g. Westminster is opening up co-ed, SPGS, G&L, CLGS etc).

My argument is that if we might end up at the same top-tier all through school anyway, then why not just attend in the first place (if we do get a spot) and 'de-risk'.

However we have heard from some friends at a highly selective all through (entered at reception) that their children just 'coasted' through the junior school and lacked motivation at the all through schools as their place at senior school is pretty much guaranteed even if they are just average/middle of the pack. The children lack drive as a result and this was evident also at senior school as they never had to work that 'hard'.

So wondered if children from prep schools work harder or have built up better work ethics?

As well, Is there a difference in attitude between the kids coming in at 11+ at an all through school vs kids that have started at the school from reception? I know all kids are different so it is hard to judge.

Your thoughts and experience will be highly valued

x

I think it very much depends on the dc and whether they can get away with coasting. I do believe some schools are more competitive, so perhaps the girls have more drive, but then again some don't mind coasting. Also, just because they coast during primary, does not mean they won't get into a good secondary. DD was at a state primary, where she coasted, only started prep for 11+ end of May year 5 (we only decided to do it last minute) and she did well. She currently goes to G&L. Her primary years were mostly spent playing, hours in the park after school, sports or whatever activities she wanted to do. The hw was light and she felt no pressure....even during the 11+ She loves her new school and she quickly got used to the increased hw load (which seems to happen at all secondary schools, even state). I would focus on sending your dd where you think she will be happy. Perhaps go by distance if you like both schools equally.

Prep schools will prepare better for 11+, especially if they have good connections with the senior schools. Your DD will be motivated if all her friends are doing it. There are more options of schools for girls at 11+.

I think your husband is really misguided.

Some kids are more self-motivated than others but that has very little to do with the school. Those parents are likely trying to blame to school for their disappointment in their children's personalities (which is awful). A child who isn't suited to pressure and hard work won't change just because they are in a top prep school. They'll just be miserable if its the wrong environment.

You want a school (prep or all-through) that is suited to your child and family ethos as best as you can tell at this age. A good school will extend the children who are most able and closely monitor progress. Top all-through schools want the kids to achieve highly and care about their league table standings as much as any school. They just recognise there isn't a huge long term academic advantage to the approach required in prep schools to pass the 11+. They don't need to be exam factories in junior school.

The idea that the pressure and stress associated with the 11+ is a good thing is in my view is insane. I know parents who are going through it in London at the moment and I don't think anyone thinks its a positive experience for their kids.

Honestly, I'd prioritise good mental health at this age and a happy childhood which you can find in prep or all through school that has the right focus and approach.

Thank you for this thread. We are just now trying to decide between going to all through or prep school in terms of the 4+ offers we have received. It is such a tricky one… so just wanted to say my DH and I still haven’t decided with six days before we have to say no to one or other of them. Mental health vs sufficient options at 11 seems to be the trade off for us currently. Which put like that seems no contest but it is a lot to say no to!

I'd say it's a long long time to spend in one school from age 4 to 18! A change in environment and people can be beneficial for everyone, esp as children outgrow friendship groups and surroundings.

At most through schools the majority of student in the senior school are new intakes so it doesn't feel like you are will the same cohort the entire time. I think you can always leave at 11+ if you want to from a through school. There are always some who switch at 11 or more often at 16. The difference is that its less stressful as they know they have a great school even if the external exams don't work out.

I wouldn't over think this. If your child is in a good school, their academic outcomes are likely to be the same.

You are likely to need just as much prep at a prep school than an all through, the prep school won't get your child into the super selective without extra support. The difference is the parent background - the prep school will have likeminded parents and students all with the same goal vs all through where half the kids intend to carry on and won't do extra prep. This can be seen in GCSE and exam results where you can see all through schools are typically only just above state schools and not miles ahead like the schools kids from prep school go on to.

all through schools are barely above state schools? You mean like Brighton College, NLC, Highgate and Latymer?

Results between private schools is mostly down to selection. Those that select at 4 or 7 when long term academic ability is harder to judge will naturally have slightly lower results but it’s pretty crazy to say all through means lower academic achievement

I think a lot of the kids from prep schools will go to the all through schools anyway for senior, as most all throughs also have an 11+ intake (some double in size from junior to senior)?

I see where your husband's point but I'm not sure if the prep for 11+ is particularly helpful academically wise other than for passing the exam? It's mostly non verbal reasoning etc.

I think the juniors at an all through will be encouraged not to just coast, as the senior school will be focused on getting good exam results and probably wouldn't be happy about lots of children coming up that weren't achieving very highly?

That's what I'm hoping anyway, we've chosen an all through for our DC for September, but also had the decision whether to go prep instead. The prep was lovely too, but I felt it might become dominated by 11+ prep in the later years and I'd rather DC be learning something more interesting than lots of past 11+ papers and nom verbal reasoning. But it's v hard to know what best decision is.

My DS went from a small prep school to an all through as part of the 11+. About a third of the yr 7s had come up from the juniors and the rest came in from other schools. Clearly it's only one perspective but he's now a few years in and the vast majority of the kids in the top sets/on academic scholarship programme are the ones that came in from outside.

It would be interesting to hear if this is something others have observed at all through schools.

I would hope it's because it's easier to identify bright children at 11+, as selecting at age 3 seems a bit of a gamble? Rather than an indication of the quality of the junior school / whether the children were stretched Vs coasting

At the all school my kids attend 2/3rd of seniors are new and 1/3 are from the juniors.

Given the majority are external the majority of academic scholars are external but last year 2 of the 6 top scholarships for the 11+ went to junior school kids so it’s proportional. The scholarship is based entirely on the exam - even though the juniors have a guaranteed place everyone sits it.

With that said I suspect the junior cohort is slightly less able overall compared to the new entrants given many of them were selected at 3 years old! Also, the exam doesn’t measure actual intelligence. I’d assume the juniors would be less motivated to do huge prep for it but the junior school still gets academic scholars every year so must be doing a good job.