Reception choices - School A or School B

[JC21]

Hi everyone,

We are looking to send our son into reception next year and are stuck between two choices and wanted to get your opinions. I have detailed our journey so far below.

We have two schools in mind. School A is on the same street as us, new opened in 2018, and just got their first sats results after covid. The parents who send their kids there only say good things and kids are happy. For the longest time this was the only school we had in mind for him to go to primary and he already attends preschool there. He loves the preschool.

We recently decided to also look at other schools. School B is a church of england school in s small village 2 mins drive away. Class size is about 30 per year group.

We visited both
Impressions -School A

Everything looks really nice, kids happy and running around but can't see much learning, the kids look abit distracted, maybe because it was end of the year and bit more relaxed.. we visit sometimes to pick our son up from preschool. Teachers faces sometimes seem abit stressed. We find dealing with office staff difficult sometimes our son came with us to the visit he was very happy. Head teacher told us alot about the awards they have got and extra curricular activities on offer. School is part of a trust and leads up to what used to be one of the best public secondary schools in the area, although from what I heard and researched its went downhill a while ago and requires improvement. We know some parents and kids at school A they are positive about it.

School B
We were very Impressed with the relationship between students and teachers. Students are very well behaved, amazing manners and appear to be having alot of fun learning and happy. The staff we very warm to us and can feel their kindness and compassion. They teach at quite a high standard and was surprised level of some things they are teaching. Big field outside for kids to play on. From what I heard as small school lots of interaction between year groups and students help each other out.

As you can see already very different types of school. The students backgrounds are also quite different. We are bordering the edge of town so between a very quite poor area and quite a rich suburban area. School A is more diverse there is no catchment criteria for this school so alot of kids from the poorer area go here, and more kids from varied backgrounds, with English as a 2nd language. White british are a minority, wheras school B is mostly White British, but with a few other mixes as well. School A accommodates to everyone of mixed backgrounds whereas school B probably doesnt need to do this much. The character of both schools is nice, both good on oftsed, and we would be happy at either one. We were in favour of School A however we saw the sats results

Sats results
School A - "well below average" in writing.
Reason may be because what I mentioned above and or relativly new less experienced staff
School B - constantly very good results. High in reading which they seem to put lots of effort in.

This was a big shock to us as we really had school A as our first choice. We thought back about what we saw and experienced and we started to consider school B for our first choice instead.

However school A results may get better. How much should we judge just from Sats?

On the other hand, our son is quite bold not shy, sometimes bossy, but really cares listens and does well in preschool. I start to wonder if school B, small school education might be restricting or there is silent pressure to do well as a whole group or keep people happy. They have class leaders, somethjng about a rainbow flag if you are a good student etc. On the other hand It is easy to see how school A is, bigger, more relaxed inclusive, educationwise dont know what they are doing but still a good school (so people say), but don't know much about what is happening at School B and little info in terms of reviews on the Internet. I talked with 1 lady with 3 kids there and she says it's a brilliant school, but in certain ways feels abit more like a risk than school A. But if School A sats results were better maybe we wouldn't have been shaked or changed our minds.

On top of all this in addition -

I then saw this bad review for school B saying that they are teaching 5/6 year old about same se marriage. I have nothing against that but was thinking it is quite young to teach those topics. I researched the schools se.Ed curriculum and they teach body parts and appropriate names for them in year 1 or 2. And they start learning alot of more detailed things properly from year 4 ( i guess ks2). Which in my experience seems way early but maybe this is how schools are now. I have no idea... but was a recent concerning point. They use somethjng called jigsaw framework? If this is the case I'm starting to feel School B maybe too serious about educating from a young age.

I was wondering what you guys think about this situation. What would you think is the best option? Any thoughts you have no matter big or small would be greatly appreciated. Apologies for such a long post. As you can guess I've had alot on my mind.

My son started school in September. Having been to the preschool, he knew half of his class already which I think made a huge difference to how he settled in. I really thought he would struggle more. By now, the children who came in from elsewhere do seem settled too but it seems to have taken them longer.

Being on your street will also make it a lot easier for him to walk himself when he gets to the age they allow it.

I wouldn't consider the SATS too much, especially considering how much schooling was disrupted. But also having lower SATS results is meaningless without knowing their initial assessment data in reception year anyway, those children might well have made as much, or more, progress from their starting point. It is likely they had more children coming in below expected levels in the first place.

You've seen School A at its everyday level, and School B when it's showing off. Many schools look better from the outside.

2min drive... how far is that? Remember its also getting in the car, parking etc. Is the school actually walkable? My kids first school was a 4 minute drive... or 5 minutes by bike or 12 minutes walk. It actually took longer by car once the messing around either end had been factored in

What relationship education framework does school A follow? Its quite normal for kids to know about same sex relationships at a young age as their friends have two mums or dads, and different families feature in children's TV.

@JC21 forget academic result comparison between schools. As long as ur in state, remember this always, you will have to teach at home if u want ur child at a certain level. You will soon realise once ur in the system, that state standards are quite low, vary across schools, vary with the cohorts natural learning abilities, competitive parents and your child. You will learn there is tutoring, 4+, 7+, 11+ if u haven’t already.

teachers will look stressed anywhere with 30 kids. If u already know the cohort in ur current school and happy with the mix, families, then stick to it. U can risk ur child’s comfort by moving. Kids misbehave, and teachers manage much of the time doing crowd control which affects child’s learning in class. Then there is bullying, bad lang etc and school cannot ask families to leave.

distance- no brainer

final Advise- think in the long run. Where do u want ur child to be? And work on that at home, minimise dependence on school teaching, you will get 10 mins per parent consultation a term, and only books to read mainly from yr 1. U will hardly know how ur child is doing at school unless u teach and figure his potential for stretching

take charge

from what you have said it sounds like A is a much more inclusive school.

I would not be put off by SATs results but would be put off by a primary we needed to drive to. School A would very much be my choice. There may be niggles, but it sounds like it is doing amazingly given the extreme pressures all schools are currently facing.

Re. The sex and relationships education. It will be very low key in EYFS and KS1. Names for body parts in Science (all body parts, not just penis and vulva), different types of families, what being a friend looks like.
Puberty and periods in Year 5, with conception, pregnancy and birth in Year 6.
It’s now statutory, so schools will be pretty similar. Jigsaw are just an organisation who made a nice Scheme of Work for teachers to use.

The school on your street. I promise you will hate yourself for choosing one a drive away.

School A.

Sats results are meaningless is you don't have those pupils baseline data or starting points. Teachers can't perform miracles on low attaining pupils but they can still help them make progress from their starting points.

Parents have a big impact on children's attainment. If you want your child to do well in sats you need to support them at home.

All teachers look and get stressed sometimes.

Most schools use jigsaw to teach pshe. It is nothing to worry about.

CofE would also put me off school B.

Don't drive to a further school.

I don’t agree with @Razzmata state standards are now quite high. Although the 2014 English curriculum is extremely boring, the work that is done at primary is extremely rigorous these days.

If school A is anything like the school I work in (high levels of EAL, transient population) then even their Reception data won't tell you much as it's likely not the same children. I remember looking around my Y6 class a few years ago, and less than half of the children had been there since Y3 (Junior school). I reckon about a third of them joined the feeder Infants in Reception. The other classes were broadly similar, so comparing our Reception data to Y6 for that year group would be pointless.

You've seen School A at its everyday level, and School B when it's showing off. Many schools look better from the outside

I agree with this from a PP. The only way to know a school is from those who go there, or work there. My dsis was a teacher with about 13 years experience and visited schools for her DD. She chose the one she thought was so much better than others and managed to get a job there. It was dreadful! The management was appalling, it was by far the most stressful place she'd ever worked, and she actually left teaching for several years (now doing a different role in education). This taught me that you can be very experienced and still not really know what a school is really like.

I would go with the school you know. Any results for any school are taken as an average. If your child is able, they will do well anywhere. Of course, if you pay a lot of money, they will generally do better whether that's private school or extensive tutoring. School B's SATs will be reflective of their white, middle class, privileged families rather than the school's excellent teaching.

From what you have said I'd choose school B.
You say it's a two minute drive away, could you walk it?
While Sats results may or may not be relevant I think it's worth taking into account.
From how you write your post I get the impression you are favouring school B.
I'd go with your gut whichever school that is.

I didn't read the whole post but it's a no brainer for me. Go to the school on your road. Fresh air and a walk every morning and afternoon. No getting stuck in school run traffic. He's 4, it's not about exam results! You can rethink when he goes to high school.

I think it’s important to remember that your experience will probably very similar which ever school you choose so don’t fret too much.

A friend once advised to always pick the school you can walk to where possible. I followed that advise and it has been great. Mornings are so much better getting fresh air than stuck in a traffic jam with other rage filled parents.

I really value the diversity of our school and am glad he is not in a class with mostly white British children.

Dont worry about sats - they’re not important for your child’s progress.

The sex education curriculum is the same for all state schools and is almost always handled in a very light touch way when they are young.

I would choose school A.

I would choose school B are you actually going to walk to school A or drop DS off in the car on the way to work? Primary is the basis on which to build in secondary and ultimately later life. The stronger that foundation the easier it is for DS to achieve in life. I always think kids should be with like minded peers who are likely to stay in the school from reception to year 6, is a school with a poor sat result likely to hold onto kids or will parents be looking for a move.

One set of results is impossible to judge on as you have no idea of the make up of that year group - they may have had high levels of SEN etc. Also don't just assume that new school = inexperienced staff. They will have recruited from a range of experiences when they opened, and ever since (5 years isn't new new, it's enough time to build up a consistent team). Yes some more established schools do end up with staff who stay 20+ years, which sounds great in theory (clearly they are happy there, etc), but sometimes staff who never move can become set in their ways, especially if they never move year group either. The education system is constantly adapting and teachers need to be open to adapting too. I'm not saying it's necessarily the case at this particular CofE school, but some schools with very settled staff can be a bit outdated in their approach as rarely does someone new come in with more modern ideas and approaches to shake it up a bit.

I agree that you've only seen the other school at their best as it's only natural to put on a show for an open day, so again it's hard to compare. Learning in Reception can be hard for an outsider to obviously 'see', as the curriculum should be play based. If you could clearly 'see' learning in the other school that immediately screams formal to me. Depends what you want really but formal doesn't necessarily equate to great learning imo.

You say you've only heard parents say good things about the school on your road and your son is very happy at the preschool. That tells me all I need to know.

I'd always pick the closest school as long as it ticked the right boxes. This one sounds like it does. Your son will no doubt move up with most of his friends from pre-school too which is a real plus for settling in.

School A sounds more of an all rounder and agree with a pp about being in nursery already giving an advantage.
Close to school is brilliant for when they are old enough to walk to/from school alone, SATS can be representative of year group not school especially as the most recent results are the kids who missed out on months due to Covid. Diverse culturally & socio-economically also a bonus for me.
The sex Ed relationship stuff sounds quite standard - it's national curriculum now. My just turned 9 year old is telling everyone she knows how babies are made at the moment.
I have always worked on principle if it's not right we'll go on waiting list and move but we do have a lot of movement in our area.
I'm sure your child will do well in either with right support.

I'd choose the school on my road anyday, unless it was poor. It sounds like a school that is establishing itself. You will appreciate when your dc wants to have play dates and the friends are very local.

Regarding 'Jigsaw', it's a very common primary PSHE program. The content is extremely gentle. The 'teaching about same sex relationships' will simply be sharing stories which include same sex parents, in the same way you'd share stories about different races or people with disabilities to teach that we're all different and help make young children aware and and more accepting of that. They're not exactly taking them out on a pride march or 'promoting' certain lifestyle choices over others, they'll just be raising awareness in the most subtle of ways. Sounds to me like the parent who left that negative review has let their own prejudices lead to a major overreaction.

A- I wouldn’t navigate my car out of a school street to go to another school street - this school sounds lovely. I wouldn’t judge any sats given the covid years those kids faced

You haven’t mentioned clubs or wrap around care or how easy it will be to get your son to school and then get to work.

Id take these into account but based on what you have said I’d go for school A. Diversity is great, being able to walk is great, familiarity is great

I didn't see anything in your post about whether either school is oversubscribed, or any admissions criteria that might be relevant? All very well to spend ages thinking about your 'choice' but if it turns out that one of them isn't likely to offer you a place anyway, then that's pretty relevant. How likely are you to get a place at either of these schools, based on previous years? School A I would guess is likely to be a reasonably safe bet, being so close, but I'd want to check into the details for both (and particularly school B) before getting too excited.

I moved mine from a school A type setup to a smaller than yours school B and it was the best thing... for mine. That really small and nurturing atmosphere (despite less stellar academic results to be fair) was what my kids needed after some rotten bullying at the larger school. It's been the making of DD2 who needed to be a slightly bigger fish in a smaller pond after being squished down by some bloody piranhas in her previous school! Also means that the relationships I have with the staff are much more direct when needed rather than having to battle with a large admin team to get messages through - it's usually one or two points of contact who know me and DD well (DD has a fairly impressive collection of SEND but functions well academically apart from having the executive function and concentration of a particularly scatterbrained house brick).

You pick what suits your child though - DD1 would have done somewhat OK in school A (she was starting to struggle a bit socially though and did benefit when we moved her) - but both my kids are on the high-socially-masking side of the ASD spectrum and academically do OK so were likely to fly below the radar in a larger school.

One point to consider with SATs percentages and a smaller school though is that they WILL go up and down quite a lot across years as each child is a much larger percentage of the results when you compare a cohort of 30 from a one-form entry school to a cohort of 90 from a three-form entry school (thinking of school size variations around here). Gets even more marked when you're looking at the like of my kids' school with 15 in a year group and a high percentage of quite marked SEN who didn't take the tests (if one of the 10 kids who sat them is having an off or spectacularly on-day... it has a big impact - thankfully for last year's results - DD1 was the one crazy child in the UK who absolutely LOVED the KS2 reading test that caused all the upset!)

Just to add that a larger pond can sometimes benefit friendships. DD had no good friends at primary (2 form) then at secondary (8 form), she's found her people. There's many a mumsnet thread about a child being trapped in a class where there are a few 'not nice' characters. The advantage of multi form is the can swap. I did this for my son in Y2. He had 2 miserable years sadly but the move to another form was brilliant. Moving school would have been very difficult for him but this way he already knew the school and some kids but was more isolated from the unkind children.

Teaching little ones the appropriate names of body parts is actually a godsend for safeguarding purposes. For example if a child says they were grabbed “down there” it could be a serious concern or absolutely nothing if “down there” is actually referring to their feet!