Why such low SEN?

[gobbledoops]

Help me solve this mystery, please! I have two primary schools near me. They are very similar in results and demographics etc except for this weird anomaly with the number of SEN kids.

One is a standard local primary school with about 13% SEN kids which is average for my LA. Another is a Catholic school with only 4% SEN kids. Why would this school have such low numbers? Do they discriminate somehow? Are they just rubbish at identifying additional needs? Help me solve this please!

There's none so blind as those who will not see. Some schools are adept at avoiding SEN kids by fair means or foul. DD's first primary school was one. Just under 1k kids. SENCO was a FT Y6 teacher. I found out later that the school was repeatedly taken to tribunals by parents about SEN issues they refused to deal with, always lost and didn't care because this was the price of doing business. Nice middle class area, OFSTED outstanding (apparently according to OFSTED their SEN provision was extra lessons for Y6s before SATS). We moved schools - most SEN parents did.

It costs schools money to support SEN kids. Some avoid it. It isn't ethical and it's grim for the kids but it's true.

I don't think you can compare because "sen" covers a massive range. It doesn't just mean learning disabilities, social disabilities etc.
My daughter's primary was linked with another local primary.
Her school is the allocated one for children with mobility issues or who use a wheelchair because it was all on one floor (since rebuilt with lifts). The "sister" school is an old Victorian building with lots of floors and stairs.
So "on paper" it might look like one school has more "sen" pupils than another but sometimes it's just logistics.

If admission to Catholic school is by faith it could be that some families of a child with SEN don't have the bandwidth to also attend church so they don't get in.

Or the school is poor at identifying SEN.

Or luck / random distribution.

Or the school gently encourages parents of SEN children that 'we're not really set up well to support this, you may find Y school is better'.

Or the school just doesn't support so children get moved by their parents.

"You need to consider if this is really the right school for your son. He will be much better catered for at x"

Said to me by the head teacher of our local outstanding school. Needless to say, we didn't send DS there as it was crystal clear they didn't want him.

Some schools are truly excellent, and some play dirty, but most parents don't see this unless that have a child with SEN.

And this is why imo the two (comp) secondary schools in my small town have EHCP rates of 5.4% and only 1.6% ...

I would say its a mix of not being as good at identifying SEN and being off putting to SEN families when they look round.

We had schools say 'of course you can apply, but x school is so much better as it has bigger classrooms'

'we will do our best of course, but I really think we will struggle to support, there's no funding you know'

And other schools confindently saying 'of course we can support, would love to have you here, this is what we do, what else do you need.

Its well known to the point they call the friendly schools willing to do thier job schools magnet schools.

There is a head of a primary school near us who actively drives out SEN kids. Sets them up to fail so they have no choice but to move school. But because they get good results in a really rough area (because all the SEND kids have left) no one cares. It’s well known to not even contemplate sending a SEND kid to that school.

This. My DD used to be a primary where the head refused point blank to allow children to be assessed for SEN. This even meant many private diagnoses were blocked as most assessors wanted to observe the child at school and the head said no. It was particularly hard for dyslexic children who couldn’t access the learning materials.

So, the children didn’t get the support (and in the case of adhd, the medicine) they needed.

So, almost all of them left, with angry parents.

A very low number of SEN children is a red flag.

Agree with much of the above. But also, sometimes it's a question of semantics and reflects the individual Senco's (or school SMT's) take on what needs are technically "SEND", as opposed to needs that can be met through Quality First Teaching in the classroom so don't need to go on the books. There is a statutory definition, of course, but interpretations seem to vary and this can have a significant impact on reported numbers of students with SEND from school to school.

My DS is dyslexic and ping pongs on and off the SEN register every time the Senco changes. The practical support stays much the same. (Comms are way better when he's on the register though. )

We have had this with DD2 in the juniors. There were two local schools - one an outstanding primary who are very good at sending the message to prospective families that their child's needs won't be met and therefore SEN got concentrated in the infant school (amazing, epic, brilliant school and the best SENCO I have ever encountered)... but then they move up to the juniors who didn't really want the SEN children and would set them up to fail - remove provisions that had supported them, not tackle bullying, lose all the meticulous paperwork and just refuse to believe diagnoses.

We ended up leaving after half a year in the school, and most of the other families of kids with SEN have been hounded out similarly. Fucking appalling and the Head is a vile, vile woman - but when you have a SENCO and class teacher (and exSENCO) who are refusing to accept children's medical diagnoses and yelling at them that they could just develop motor coordination and better social skills if they just tried harder and keeping them in at breaks to re-write everything (DD is massively massively dyspraxic) - principles go out of the window and you have to put your kids first... which is how these schools end up with really really disproportionately low percentages of SEN.

Other factor could be the size of the intake - the school my youngest is at now is tiny (15 in a year group) - one child there is a heck of a bigger percentage than one child in a year group of 60 or 90.

Yes, it does look like a red flag to me. I have already been to an open day, but will try to arrange to talk to the head separately. What would you ask to get a straightforward answer? I have asked a generic question before and got a generic “demographics” answer.

Perhaps something nice and straightforward like, 'my child needs some additional support for x, can you tell me about the support your school would offer in this area? What do you find most effective?' - sounds like you are being very wise, it is much better to spot the anti-SEN schools before your child has a rotten time than after. Good luck

Agree with @Igmum - and if , like the head of one school we looked at, they say, "X?? Oh no, we don't label young children here!", run like hell.

We have similar in a village local to us. Two schools within walking distance of each other. One has barely any SEN pupils the other 23%. It's pretty simple really the school without SEN pupils makes it very difficult for a parent to view the school if the child has an EHCP. It has a reputation of not welcoming SEN children so parents are dissuaded from applying and they point parents to the other school if anyone asks. The odd one that does get through are not well supported, they take a punitive approach, parents are made to feel unwelcome and are told that that is the way that they do things and they won't be changing and if they are unhappy they should look elsewhere and so they jump ship. It has been this way for years, they had a HT who stayed until retirement but from what I hear they recruited in his image probably because parents who have children who fit the bill are very happy with the status quo.

I’ve just looked at the school where I was a governor. 2.8% EHCP and 10.6% receiving SEN help. So I assume you are looking at the same stats and not comparing apples and pears.

Assuming you are not, RC schools are usually Vomuntary Aided and have different admission rules. Usually extra forms and a record of your RC church attendance. This means (here anyway) you will be RC to want the school. Dc often travel some distance to get to the school and local non RC families don’t want it. Around here, the nearby local schools are very good so why go RC if you aren’t?

This admission criteria also means parents are highly motivated to want the RC school but often prefer a local school if dc has send. It’s just easier! So there’s usually a discrepancy.

Just looked at the data for another RC primary in a town in the other direction: 4.3% with EHCP. 9.4% with support. So much higher number of plans! Clearly advocating well. Obviously parents with send children are at this school!

I was not a governor of a RC school by the way.

Huge overlap between SEND and deprivation and church schools tend to be more middle class, generally speaking.

Many EHCPs go to the dc with the most articulate parents who can advocate for them. Often the most deprived dc don’t get what they need unless the school is very switched on.

My local Catholic primary also has the lowest SEND reported pupil numbers as well

Why would a Catholic school automatically have lower SEN @WhyMeWhyNowWhyNot ? Jesus cured blindness once but I am less sure about autism, dyslexia and dyspraxia 😁

I've found that schools with additional criteria to decide whether you get in are remarkably good at making it difficult for people they don't want even when they should be eligible.

Schools can get a reputation about SEN one way or the other.

One school locally here has a SLT who are immense with pushing for help that pupils need. One of them has an adult child that she had to fight for and she fights for her pupils in a similar fashion. The HT does an amazing job in creating the time for the other to really advocate and fight for pupils (even attending meetings with parents above and beyond what is necessary).

As a result parents want their child at that school, rather than the other local primary which is just averagely supportive. They’re not unsupportive, they just don’t have the same extra levels of support.

Equally I used to work in a school with such an unsupportive HT that parents would actively fight against sending their child there. He was stuck in the dark ages in terms of SEN and would almost hound “naughty” children, as he badged them, out of his school with a complete lack of support.

The pp who said families with Sen are less likely to attend church, especially a traditional Catholic church and therefore get not in might have something.

It can also be down to the buildings - an old school site with multiple levels, uneven paths, stairs and listed status is not as well placed to meet the needs of children with mobility issues, for example,

The particular provision in that area might be more tailored - one school with an established unit, such as for ASD, d/eaf learners, purpose built premises and a full staffing contingent, would be more able to meet the needs of a greater number.

Then there's the admissions process. A Catholic school that is oversubscribed will need evidence of Catholic practice, which can mean that the people most likely to be able to provide that sort of evidence (secure home, regular attendance, etc) are also more likely to be able to advocate for their children to access SEND provision other than mainstream.

And yes, some schools have dickheads in charge. But not all.