State vs Independent

[DeliciousDishes]

Hi, I have a 3.5 yr old summer born daughter. We are torn between a good state vs an average independent school in central London. My goal is to prep her for 7+. Do you think the independent school will give her a lot of advantage or am I better of just tutoring her for the next 3 years?

I think if you're aiming for 7+ then you may as well just go for pre-prep rather than a state primary. You won't save that much money compared to the total cost of private fees (if you're paying from 7-18 anyway) and it will be a nicer experience for you and your DD. There will be gaps and you can tutor, but it takes time away min for leisure activities and can be stressful. If you are a household with 2 ft workers then you want to focus your free time on play and making the most of being in London.

There are some excellent preps and some all-through schools which start at 4+ within reach of central London though - have you considered those rather than just the average independent school?

Unfortunately we just moved into the area, and all the good independent ones are gone, and I doubt she is good enough for 4+ at this stage - summer born and not prepped. The thing is, even if we send to the average independent, I know we will try to get out at 7+. So is it then worth it, or am I better of spending extra on tutoring?

Unless the school is only a pre-prep and specifically preps the children for 7+, I don’t think there’d be much of an advantage, particularly for an ‘average independent’ with mixed ability. You’d probably be better off saving your money and doing some additional tutoring

Even if your child goes to a private school they’ll still need tutoring on top for a selective private. How much money you have and ease of commute are two key criteria for this decision.

if you’ll be running yourself ragged doing drop off and pick up inbetween working full time vs the other school being a 10 min walk away will have a huge impact on you.

We have friends (who were new to London) that sent their children to the local state primary until 7+ and it really helped them make local friends and feel a part of the community. Since you’ve just recently moved, that might also be something to consider

Why would you go to an "average" inde over a good state? And I assure you, you don't need to "prep" a four year old for school entrance, even if they are summer born. Age is taken into account in entrance exams up to 11.

Of course you need to prep. Have you taken a look at the 7+ entrance papers recently? Given the exam is sat at the beginning of Year 2, the questions are based on the whole of the Year 2 curriculum. So they will need to know Year 2 content at the beginning of the year before they are formally taught at school.

@Moominmammacat thats just wrong advice.

Op, if ur looking at 7+, u shud be targeting selective indies. The competition is fierce even at that age, and parents feel it harder cz at 6-7 yrs, u have little control on the child and ability to discipline (times assessments, test format, dictation, focus etc). Then kids at that age are not easiest to home tutoring, they generally respond better to outside person with authority. A good pre-prep school (that doesn’t have its own prep) would be more motivated to prep ur child for 7+, but Ul need to check that talking to them.
all the above applies if moneys not an issue. If money is an issue, go state, work hard, get tutors, be and nvr is not taught at state.

It depends why you think the school is 'average' and what 7+ schools you are targeting. If you are in West London, average can often just be about prestige rather than quality. Average facilities or even average cocurricular offerings wouldn't matter in your situation. Mixed ability private schools can also be very good at differentiation.

If its a prep school rather than a through school, it will likely be very focused on accelerating learning even in KS1. Ask the school how they differentiate learning for the most able and if they teach ahead of the national curriculum. Many prep schools will formally be teaching 1 year ahead of the national curriculum in KS1 as standard which would significantly reduce the prep and gaps you need to fill for the 7+.

It also depends on how easily you can afford it.

It makes you wonder how any state school dc ever achieve anything! These uneducated dc who are not taught the national cutticulum a year ahead do, somehow, get to Oxbridge! Some are not tutored ever. Just let your dc have a pleasant childhood. You don’t need to join in with this awful competitive parenting.

All primary schools (either private or state) have to follow the same curriculum so in many cases there isn’t much variation between the actual academics. DD sat an 11+ entry exam for a private school this week and was laughing because the maths paper was exactly the same worksheet she’d done in her state school the day before. That said, private schools can offer advantages over state in the form of smaller classes and a more 360 degree education (for example better pastoral care, more sports etc) That’s speaking broadly though. I’d choose whichever one you feel suits your DD best.

@MissDollyMix massively wrong! Eg private do be and nvr, math and eng at a greater depth! Certainly not the same as state!

Private don’t have to follow the same curriculum, though most do choose to follow the national curriculum, albeit often accelerated. Entrance exams for private senior are usually based on the national curriculum, though may have extras added in eg probability, and are often sat early in y6 but cover the whole y6 curriculum (hence the need to accelerate or tutor). Plus, as above, certainly at 11+ they’d usually include VR and NVR which I’ve never seen taught in a state school.

Oh silly me! I’ve only been to, worked in and had children private school! What would I know? The EYFS framework must be followed by all educational institutions (although they can apply for an exemption) After that schools can design their own curriculum but broadly most will be based on the same national curriculum set in state schools. Some indies work at greater depth but, this might come as a shock, so do some state schools. As I said in my original post, the benefit of a private school is the breadth of the curriculum. I’m by no means anti-indie but in my opinion there are limited benefits to paying large amounts of money for some very average pre-preps.

@MissDollyMix you stated "All primary schools (either private or state) have to follow the same curriculum so in many cases there isn’t much variation between the actual academics." That's wrong as of course there is considerable variation! It's wrong to advise otherwise. Unless ur referring to crap indies which I'm sure are not being considered by the OP

I’d agree with you for most of the country

But for competitive London Preps, they do have to be prepped for the 7+. You can absolutely tutor yourself, but it does away from your fun time with your kids. That is the issue.

Yes- my typo- I was referring to the EYFS. I still stand by my assertion that most good schools will follow similar curriculums- especially at the pre-prep stage. That said as OP refers to her indie option as ‘average’ I was reading between the lines that she meant what you so charmingly refer to as a ‘crap indie’ . There’s considerable variation across the board of all schools. Which is great because different schools suit different kids. I think we’re moving away from OP’s original question though.

To give a bit more context, both schools we are looking at are local, time, etc are not an issue. We want to definitely get out at 7+ and go for a school like City. Whilst we can affort it, 3 years at a private cost almost 100k (given VAT exemption is likely to go away). So is it really worth at this age since our aim is to prepare for 7+ anyway? I get the selective independent ones (our son is in a very good independent school (7+ entry)), but if not highly academic, what's the advantage at this age?

I know! I failed my own London school’s very competitive 7+ through lack of preparation (many years ago!) Passed at 11 with a bit more prep though! I’m totally aware of the situation you’re describing and stand by my original statement.

If she OP is living in some parts of London her kids will have to take exams to get into a prep.

prepping for an exam doesn’t make you an ‘awful competitive parent’, it’s just prepping for an exam.

I agree it’s too young, but there’s pressure on places so there it is. It doesn’t mean kids can’t have a nice childhood as well.

@DeliciousDishes ur case is acutely specific and we don't know which 2 schools ur comparing. So no one can advise accurately. 7+ can be fierce depending on the target school later. I just read someone on another thread mention nvr for 7.+ in the assessment! Stay state if saving is important and you can heavily tutor. Go average indie (as I understand from ur op) if money is not a concern, u can't run around experimenting with good tutors, and want relatively less stressful years ahead. That said, with avg indie, ud end up worrying if ur a worrier, and of course it sounds like its not academically ambitious with leaver destinations

At 7 plus in a decent prep you should have specialist teachers for art, sport, music, science and some other subjects. You should get really good facilities and a school that gets dc to better independent senior schools.

I know the London situation is mad but I’ve known dc go weekly boarding for senior schools out of London. Much easier to get into. My DD went boarding with no tutoring and passed our county 11 plus with no tutoring either.

Many posters simply don’t understand greater depth either. The national curriculum is not one size fits all. Great teachers are able to give breadth to the brightest. Where I live, very bright dc go to the grammars. They don’t need tutoring from age 4!

I should clarify. This is the reception entry. The state school is Bousfield in Kensington, and the indies are Brighton College Kensington or Francis Holland Kensington. Will these help a lot with our 7+ preparation over the state one?

We lived in West London for around until our eldest (now 6) was around 3. We originally planned to stay in London for their education until they were 13 and went to board somewhere. However the schools in London are SO competitive. We felt that although our son was definitely capable we didn't want him to spend his school years focused on the 4+, then 7+ then 11+ or 13+. They are far too young to waste their childhood stressing about exams and getting into the 'best' schools. The pressure starts far too young in London IMO. Instead we moved out of the city and bought a house in a more rural area, my DH can commute in. We found the most amazing prep school 3-13, set in acres of countryside, outstanding facilities and it was the best decision we've ever made. We now have 2 DC there and they love it. They spend so much time outdoors which you probably wouldn't get at a inner city school and they don't have to worry about any exams until they are much older. I appreciate this isn't possible for everyone but if it is I strongly urge you to do it.

@DeliciousDishes I haven't heard reviews highly speaking of these indies. Look at their leaver destinations. Suggest u stay state if ur child is bright and a natural learner, if u have the luxury to commute for extra curriculars, heavily tutored at home, if ur child follows disciplined learning at home etc. some child are middlers and there's no guarantee they'll be stretched at a good state, but u will have to do the heavy lifting. Unfortunately the 7.+ is no longer easier than 11+, it's mental what they expect at 7+. At that age, the pressure FEELS harder than 11+ I think, if child is middler, not natural learner and stubborn to sit and focus