Secular school and church services

[HowIsThisOk]

Myself and my husband have no faith (although raised in Catholic Irish [me] and Methodist [him] cultures) , and have sent our child to the local secular primary school. When the teacher came to do the home visit in September, she asked if we were OK with our daughter taking part in religious events like the nativity. Knowing the nativity is one of those core school events, we said yes but didnt ask what other services take place. However, since then, they have taken the kids to the local COE church for the Harvest festival, a EYFS concert, and now have a Carol service, a tree decorating event, a Christmas service rehearsal and the Christmas service itself all scheduled in the church, let by the vicar. This is in the space between end of September and when they break up in December. At these services the vicar speaks about God, tells them about blessings and promotes the church to both children and parents (mainly for parents to donate. They take card). I have pulled my kid out of going to the church and she now stays in school with a few other kids and colours, but I am really shocked that this amount of religious involvement is happening in a school that, from what I understood, shouldn't teach one specific religions beliefs as fact. I thought all children were supposed to be included in school community events during school time, and I am concerned that my daughter will feel left out and different because she isn't a part of this faith. But if I send her to the services, I am going against our own beliefs and doing something I am really uncomfortable with, just so she "fits in".

Is this normal in schools in the UK? Am I wrong when i thought secular schools don't partake in Church of England religious ceremonies every few weeks?

@Alchemista What does a secular school look like? There must be a daily act of worship in schools.

The greatest influence on dc is you. Do you honestly think a few minutes doing something mildly religious is indoctrination? It’s absolutely not. Much greater pushing of a religion can be but that’s not the case in community schools. They of course welcome all faiths and teach the agreed RE syllabus but still have a nod to religion. Most parents expect dc to follow their religion and take dc to synagogue, mosque or church etc. They have the greatest say in dc and religion. Definitely not most schools.

It's funny how many parents who went through school assemblies where they said prayers and sung hymns daily and generally had more Christian input than modern schools, have come out the other side declaring that they're atheist, now are concerned about their children being indoctrinated.

Do they think their children are less able to think for themselves than they were?

Interestingly the people who are currently turning to religion are increasingly the young generation who have had little religious education, and don't know the standard bible stories etc that we would have heard many times over school life.
Taking them out may make them more inclined to find out about religion when they're older.

@TizerorFizz does this apply to academies too?

I'm pretty sure my child's school doesn't have a daily act of worship (not that I have a problem with this, just curious).

Yes. @Flimpley Their funding agreement should require the daily act of worship in the same way it’s expected in LA schools. Whether it gets inspected and whether anyone cares is another matter.

Village school here. Supposed to be non religious. Christmas term ours did Divali, Harvest (but the story of Hands) and the Nativity.

We have the end of term concert in church because it's a space for parents. The school hall is too small

We've always discussed religion at home. I'm not sure where I sit with it. Our DD had a very serious conversation with the vicar over Christianity and science when she was in Year 4. I think whether it's indoctrination depends on the school, the head, the vicar and how you parent your DC.

School is 5 hours a day. It’s less then 40 weeks of the year. It’s not indoctrination in any sense of the word.It’s a few minutes a day! Parents are with dc far more and have far more influence. Most dc follow parental religion don’t they? Do Muslims become Christian because they live in the uk and go to school here with our CofE religion? Obviously not. Parents are the drivers of religion, or non religion, not school. Children rarely take themselves off to a church service because they’ve been indoctrinated by a school! Most go with parents and others continue to do what they have always done - their religion or no religion!

We aren't religious. Our secular primary visits church 1-2 times a year and the services are just for the school and parents and are mostly singing and the sermon is light and acknowledges not everyone there is a Christian. The vicar visits school a couple of times but I've seen videos and been there and they actually didn't mention God just talked about charity and community. I think this is about right for a secular school that is part of the local community and round the corner from a church.

There is a C of E school just up the road linked to a different church and they have daily prayers, weekly vicar visits, several trips to church a term and a big cross in the school hall.

@Alchemista surely critical thinking can be fostered by teaching children about different beliefs and different historical reasons for them. Understanding how and what people believe is key to developing a belief system of your own, whether that is faith based or not.

If the law requires a collective act of worship (in whatever form that takes) then that’s what schools must do.

@TizerorFizz You've made your point in multiple posts that parents have more influence on their children than school. I personally disagree, see the example of the parent whose kids were talking about religion non stop and were upset that their mother didn't agree with it.

Religion should be optional, if you're passionate about it, sure, learn all the religions you like. But you can be tolerant and accept other people beliefs without having to learn the ins and outs of every religion.

Say I'm a pagan and I believe in the Goddess as the divine in this world. I believe in Mother Earth and celebrate the Goddess Day every December 13th. I don't believe in Santa Claus as every person who I've seen making the magic of December festivities has always been a mother.

Say I believe in the power of witches as female cooks and chemists burnt for their wisdom. Would you like your child to learn about it?

Say I'm a Pastafarian, who believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (silly but true story, happened in Australia, look it up), would you want your child to learn about that?

My point is we can teach kindness, love and care for each other without teaching religion. Religion must be optional.

@AlchemistaDC should learn about major religions of the world in school and that should be accurately presented. What parents do is their own business but schools should teach about major religions and not minor belief systems. Parents are the greatest influencers in terms of dc religion as they control dc which is pretty obvious! However dc can have a different view but most don’t. Schools do not seek to change belief and a short dally act of worship won’t either but it might foster understanding and kindness. Assuming all dc attend.