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Primary education

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Original poster

'Why has God made the ducklings yellow"

52 replies

legoworlds · 22/10/2023 18:31

Dc has been suddenly asking a lot of God questions - why did God make things that way and not another way, etc...

I'd just quickly say he shouldn't confuse the Christian (religion they are studying now) story with how we learn about the world around us - we can look it up in his science book instead, etc.
But he is clearly quite confused.

From what I gather in RE classes they talk about how God created everything, etc. I said this is what some people believe.
But I haven't actually said to him our family does not believe in gods/ follow a religion. If I did that would he then go back to school and tell everyone gods are not real... Will that cause offence?
He is only six so I wouldn't expect him to be tactful about it just yet.

I was brought up in a different country and we didn't have RE. I learned about various religions in history lessons after the age of ten. It was all taught in the context of historical events, differences in the world, economical and sociological reasons for religion to take the forms it did, etc, etc.

My six year old is not going to a religious school, and I am so puzzled by the fact they are taught so much about religious beliefs at such an impressionable age. I don't think at his age he has enough base knowledge to draw his own conclusions and he takes everything at face value.

Anyway, just wondering how non religious families tackle the extra confusion.

OP posts:
fedupandstuck · 22/10/2023 18:50

Of course you can say that you as a family don't follow any one religion and that you don't have any beliefs about god(s). It is not offensive to other children who are being brought up to have beliefs if your child makes a statement about his/your non-belief.

If it's not a specific state school, then RE should be about what different religions believe, not about indoctrinating the children into a Christian belief system.

Just keep going with the "some people believe but we don't" line and he will figure it out. You could speak to his teacher and point out that he is currently being confused by the RE content and ask how they will address that.

fedupandstuck · 22/10/2023 18:54

Also, I would be quite specific and say that the Christian god didn't make ducklings yellow, because it's a story that only some people believe.

OneCup · 22/10/2023 18:56

From my experience parents end up telling DC their version/truth. It really undermines the teachers but as far as I am concerned it is their own fault. Most families at the school are atheist, which amplifies the problem. Apparently most call RE lesson 'oh no, not that bullshit again '. I can't think of any atheist kid that turned religious so as unpleasant as the experience is, it hasn't really had any detrimental effect on an individual/family level... but a rather negative attitude to religion, which is a shame.

Original poster
legoworlds · 22/10/2023 19:03

@fedupandstuck thank you for reading and the helpful response.

OP posts:
Original poster
legoworlds · 22/10/2023 19:14

OneCup · 22/10/2023 18:56

From my experience parents end up telling DC their version/truth. It really undermines the teachers but as far as I am concerned it is their own fault. Most families at the school are atheist, which amplifies the problem. Apparently most call RE lesson 'oh no, not that bullshit again '. I can't think of any atheist kid that turned religious so as unpleasant as the experience is, it hasn't really had any detrimental effect on an individual/family level... but a rather negative attitude to religion, which is a shame.

Yes, a shame. Especially, as it is also likely to lead to mistrust to the person/s teaching conflicting beliefs.

At this early age they are so early to learn...

OP posts:
Original poster
legoworlds · 22/10/2023 19:17

*At this age they are so eager to learn.

OP posts:
Snugglemonkey · 22/10/2023 19:43

I told dc1 that I do not believe in God pre school, as I knew it was coming. I said that some people do, inde3d people believe on different gods (cue lots of googling, reading of stories and dc deciding he does believe in Odin because he is part viking, self-declared).

3 years later he is actually still declaring himself a viking and is super interested in the norse gods. He tells people about it in school. He says "thank Odin". I have been humouring it and reading Norse legends etc. Starting to wonder if it is a permanent thing!!!!

Original poster
legoworlds · 22/10/2023 20:53

@Snugglemonkey I think what makes your story cute is that we have a child who is pursuing his own interest and choosing for himself- a bit like children choosing to believe in fairies/ superheroes even if they are told they are not real.

But being taught that God created everything by a teacher is completely different.

OP posts:
DivingForLove · 22/10/2023 20:57

How does it undermine the teachers? I always taught the “some people believe this” line because I had many different religions represented in my class.

We taught our own children from an early age that we personally didn’t believe in god. My then 5 yr old announced this to his class in Y1 - the teacher totally took it in her stride. I’d be livid if my child’s atheism wasn’t as acceptable as any other child’s religion.

Snugglemonkey · 22/10/2023 22:13

legoworlds · 22/10/2023 20:53

@Snugglemonkey I think what makes your story cute is that we have a child who is pursuing his own interest and choosing for himself- a bit like children choosing to believe in fairies/ superheroes even if they are told they are not real.

But being taught that God created everything by a teacher is completely different.

You can just say that the teacher believes that god did x, but there are many ideas. Water it down by teaching plurality and showing dc that they can choose. They will find their own way.

PlinkyPlonk176 · 22/10/2023 22:36

I would not be happy about my child being taught creationism, and would pull them up on it personally. Might be worth a conversation about the RE curriculum, pretty sure they shouldn’t be teaching that in a secular state school.

Hummusanddipdip · 22/10/2023 22:48

I would contact the school, maybe ask to speak to the subject lead. From my experience R.E is taught as "this is what some people believe"

I may have missed an update but does the school have any links to a church? The primary school in at is now an Academy but a former CoE so has maintained its ties to the church. Which means we get assemblies a few times a year and also go over to the church at Christmas and Easter for a service/special assembly.
So maybe your son has also had this experience?

IwishIdidntlikesugar · 23/10/2023 09:17

It may (and should) be the case that the teachers are saying ‘some/lots/most believe…’ but your son hasnt picked that up. No problem at all with you discussing this with him and talking about your beliefs whether religious or not. The school should also be weaving other points of view into the lessons.

Etherealcelestialbeing · 23/10/2023 09:49

I would be surprised if the school were teaching religion as fact. The curriculum covers a wide range of religions and different gods/goddesses. They should be presenting information in a non-biased 'this is what some Christian's/jews/muslims believe...'

TheWayTheLightFalls · 23/10/2023 10:04

I’ve one this age and we’ve had similar (and recently she went to a church event with a friend). I tell her whenever she raises it that it’s for her to come to her own conclusions over time about what she believes about God and that no one, even adults, have the answers. We’re Jewish so where appropriate I compare Christian / Hindu / whatever else rituals with what we do.

GunboatDiplomacy · 23/10/2023 10:18

Tell them that you don't believe in god, but please also tell them that most Christians also don't believe that God made hands on decisions about the colour of ducklings: especially in the UK they mostly believe that ducks evolved naturally over a period of millions of years and that the colour changes is due to fascinating evolutionary/biochemical pressures (no idea myself - you've now made me want to look it up). It's pernicious to all parties when children are left with the false impression that Christian = Creationist.

I had this problem with my DC when they came home from primary having been told that Christians believed in creationism. It turned out that the largely agnostic or Muslim primary school staff had effectively outsourced the compulsory Christian education element to a group of evangelical volunteer visitors who were peddling their particular version of the faith as "What Christians Believe". I had words with the school, and you may wish to do the same.

Original poster
legoworlds · 23/10/2023 10:21

I don't think they teach it as a fact.
I guess it's easier when you're little to miss the 'some people believe in this' bit, and if you hear 'God' every week you tend to accept it as the norm at that age?

It's just too much, too early?

The school doesn't have any Catholic links, just a secular primary community school now turned academy.

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Perfect28 · 23/10/2023 10:23

I'm not sure of any particular advice op but just solidarity in the idea that it's odd British primary schools focus so much on RE.

DoubleHelix79 · 23/10/2023 10:45

DD asked me if God was real when she started school. Both DH and I are firm atheists, but I want to make sure she develops tolerance and respect for other people's beliefs. I said that her dad and I didn't believe in God, but that some other people did, and that she could choose what to believe in for herself. I've also been careful to not pass judgement either way. She's recently said she didn't believe in God and I just said OK.

HoHoHoliday · 23/10/2023 11:18

If it genuinely is a secular school and they are having RE lessons then I'd feel disappointed that they were only learning about one religion. If a Christian school I could accept it whether or not my beliefs, but a non-religious school teaching about religion should teach a range of different religions in my view.

lanthanum · 23/10/2023 20:41

GunboatDiplomacy · 23/10/2023 10:18

Tell them that you don't believe in god, but please also tell them that most Christians also don't believe that God made hands on decisions about the colour of ducklings: especially in the UK they mostly believe that ducks evolved naturally over a period of millions of years and that the colour changes is due to fascinating evolutionary/biochemical pressures (no idea myself - you've now made me want to look it up). It's pernicious to all parties when children are left with the false impression that Christian = Creationist.

I had this problem with my DC when they came home from primary having been told that Christians believed in creationism. It turned out that the largely agnostic or Muslim primary school staff had effectively outsourced the compulsory Christian education element to a group of evangelical volunteer visitors who were peddling their particular version of the faith as "What Christians Believe". I had words with the school, and you may wish to do the same.

I had an interesting one as a Sunday School leader, when year 1 had been learning about "creation stories" at school. One child said "God created the world in 6 days, didn't he." Now, whilst that is one creation story, most people in our church do not take it literally. I replied with "that's what it says in the Bible, isn't it", and left the parent (who was there) to follow it up as they chose.

GunboatDiplomacy · 23/10/2023 21:45

HoHoHoliday · 23/10/2023 11:18

If it genuinely is a secular school and they are having RE lessons then I'd feel disappointed that they were only learning about one religion. If a Christian school I could accept it whether or not my beliefs, but a non-religious school teaching about religion should teach a range of different religions in my view.

Unless I've missed something, the OP's child isn't necessarily getting it from RE, they might have picked it up from assemblies which are still legally required to feature a daily act of "worship" that is "broadly Christian in nature".

We don't have secular state schools in England, although a lot of schools do ignore the requirement in practice or make just the faintest nod towards it, and parents of individual children do have the right to withdraw their children from either or both of RE and collective worship.

PutWoodInHoleDuck · 23/10/2023 21:52

Perfect28 · 23/10/2023 10:23

I'm not sure of any particular advice op but just solidarity in the idea that it's odd British primary schools focus so much on RE.

They really don't. It's probably 40 minutes a week max and most likely gets missed some weeks. It is treated by many teaching staff and children as less important than other subjects. Teachers often have little subject knowledge beyond their own RE education at school.

As per pps, I've never heard RE taught as anything but 'X believe Y'. It's vanishingly unlikely that even most of the teachers in a school would be religious themselves. I teach in a C of E school and every single teacher is an atheist (but the children don't know that - they don't know what we believe).

sashh · 24/10/2023 02:47

Completely missing the point but ducklings are not normally yellow. Not in the wild anyway and those that are start to turn brown at three weeks or grow in to completely white Ducks.

This is due to the MITF gene, perhaps your DS could ask his teacher about that?

VashtaNerada · 24/10/2023 05:47

As a teacher it is absolutely “some people believe…” and my own opinions don’t come into it. We also learn about a wide range of religions. He may just have misunderstood but if he keeps making odd comments it would be fine to ask for a bit more info about what they’re doing in RE and just explain that he’s getting confused and thinks it’s fact.